KiSS 1600 MPG/XviD/WMV/H.264 DVD Player

[Qyot27]

Thanks for the samples; for H.264 videos I don't need to know since I can find that out myself, but if you can post the settings for the ASP (or any other encode), that would be great (for example if GMC, QPel or Packed Bitstream were used). Also though non essential, audio and muxing settings would be great too.

Basically give as much information as you can without going to too much trouble.

Alright. With the H.264 I wasn't completely sure since I don't have access to the custom MeGUI profile I used to make it anymore (although from what I remember it is similar to the one I use for my distro videos now, except that the current one uses --crf 18 whereas I know the older one used --crf 15), so I would have probably just been guessing as it were.

On the ASP encode, 2 B-frames, H.263 quantization, Trellis enabled, VHQ for B-frames enabled, VHQ on 4 - Wide Search, Motion search precision on 6 - Ultra High, Maximum I-frame interval of 50, all Minimum quantizers set at 2 and all Maximum quantizers set at 31, and GMC, QPel, Packed Bitstream, and Adaptive Quantization were all not used. Profile@Level was Unrestricted. Initially encoded with Koepi's XviD 1.1.2 VFW build, and remuxed into MP4 with the version of MP4Box you listed higher up on the page to be safe. The muxing settings were simply:

Code: Select all

mp4box -add video.avi -add audio.aac -fps 59.94 output.mp4

The audio used in both H.264 and ASP encodes was encoded in iTunes at 192kbps, and in the ASP encode's case, before getting muxed into MP4 was demuxed from .m4a to .aac by dBPowerAMP Music Converter using the MP4->AAC/AAC->MP4 plugin (I don't know if that really changes anything, I just want to be thorough).

[Zero1]

I return with mixed results and theories.

qyot27_foxyhd_720p29.97.mp4
Played with audio only, similar symptoms to a bad mux (like the broken MP4Box builds I mentioned). I then extracted and remuxed the streams and it's still the same. I'm quite lost on this one. The only things that raise any suspicion is that it's CRF15, so there's a slight possiblity it was bitrate related (although it was a simple source so I somehow doubt that).

Then I noticed the max consecutive B-frames was set at 16; this may be the problem even though in normal sources it's unlikely you will get so many consecutive B-frames, but I would have expected to see a few frames up until a large sequence of B-frames and then just see the player lag rather than not display any video at all. Also it's a long shot, but it could even be a problem that MKV has caused - also whether it was encoded in Virtualdubmod (in other words VfW) or not is relevant (though I suspect you know better than to use VfW).


qyot27-killingbeta-hd_720p59.94.mp4
Slightly better results. Plays fine up until 11 seconds where it stutters and loses the audio - I wondered why since an ASP encode at 720p shouldn't really trouble a player that's been dealing with 1080i H.264 at 20mbps, but the bitrate is the reason why. At this part in the video, the bitrate skyrockets. Overall I think I found a peak of 35mbps, and 11 seconds in is roughly where it reaches 30mbps, which is hardly a surprise that it failed (yet it could even be a fragged HD, so don't discount that possibility).

I pondered it for a while, but then remembered that HD-DVD and Bluray players do not support MPEG-4 ASP, and neither does this chipset AFAIK, therefore I would assume that ASP decoding is done in software and if that's the case then I would assume the ASP decoding is limited because naturally if they have hardware MPEG-2/WMV/H.264 decoding, they would want to keep the onboard CPU low power and cheap. Also for what it's worth, ASP officially supports a maximum of 720x576 @ 30fps with a max bitrate of 8mbps, so it's not like I'm not getting something I should, so I'm not so dissapointed with that.


Since no one wanted to volunteer, I grabbed some AMVs for testing. First (in no particular order) is:

A Winter's Solstice - anubisx00.avi
Pass. Perfect sync and no judder due to framerates. Looks pretty awesome.


Bladebeat Graffiti - Kisanzi - VNS.avi
Pass. Perfect sync and no judder due to framerates. Looks pretty awesome. Would have benefitted from H.264


[BasharOfTheAges[Genkaiten.mp4
Pass. Perfect sync and no judder due to framerates. Looks pretty awesome.


[Decoy]-Bleach_Technique_Beat-_-Curve-_-Chinese.mp4
Fail. Displayed symptoms of a bad mux. Audio played with no video. I then extracted the raw H.264 and AAC, then muxed it back to MP4 using the MP4Box I linked to earlier. Now plays perfectly and get's same comments as previous.


[Koop] Skittles (1280x720).mp4
Pass. There were a few occasions where I thought I saw lag, but that might be framerate problems with my hardware (I have a 25fps PAL TV, but it can also do 29.97 fps NTSC. If a file is 23.976fps, it may judder in either mode due to duplicate frames and such).
Edit- Max bitrate is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAANDkbps (actually 9800, should be no problem) and framerate is 24fps, so it's likely it's just duplicate frame judder (24>29.97 or 25>24)



I also tested Nero's 1080p H.264 trailer with little success. At first the player refused due to it having an "unsupported Nero Digital profile", which was easily solved by extracting the raw streams and putting them into MP4 by yourself. It plays awesome for about 30 seconds but as it gets complex it slows down and the audio cuts out.

When I say bad MP4Box builds, at the moment I can only assume. I find it strange that the player will not play them, but equally strange that software players do. Is it the player that needs more MP4 support, or are the files incorrect but software splitters are more forgiving?

[Bauzi]

But come on guys, I'm not seeing a lot of interest here so far, I thought this would be pretty popular with the AMV community (this is one of the reasons we use MP4 after all, for the software and hardware compatability).

I thought the reason we used MP4 was because it properly supported x264, AAC, AC3, etc.?

zero developed this player and brainwashed us all with his lies! Now with have so many mp4 stuff at home that we HAVE to buy his player.

What briliant plan.

But 400$ is a bit too much for me now. I think that waiting a year would be good before I buy one.

[Qyot27]

I might go and fiddle a bit to see if I can get them encoded in a way that they play fine, just to see how well I can do this.

[Qyot27]

Erggg, double post...

And no, the H.264 sample wasn't encoded with the VFW. I stopped using that back in 2005, if I remember correctly.

[BasharOfTheAges]

[BasharOfTheAges[Genkaiten.mp4
Pass. Perfect sync and no judder due to framerates. Looks pretty awesome.

That probably has everything to do with the fact that you wrote me a guide on how to do it.

[Qyot27]

http://rapidshare.com/files/36171948/ne ... s.rar.html

New encodes of both killing and foxy. The ASP (killing) encode settings haven't changed except for that I used 2-pass at 7000kbps. The H.264 (foxy) encode is based on a modified version of Sharktooth's SA-HD-DVD profile.

[NeoQuixotic]

A Winter's Solstice - anubisx00.avi

I have an MP4 version I've been meaning to upload to local to replace my DivX version. (IIRC you can do that right?)

http://senduit.com/91ec95

Made using MeGUI and x264 with the HQ-Insane profile. 720x480 with 16:9 flag. I think the only things I changed were the deblocking strength/threshold and bitrate.

[Zero1]

http://rapidshare.com/files/36171948/ne ... s.rar.html

New encodes of both killing and foxy. The ASP (killing) encode settings haven't changed except for that I used 2-pass at 7000kbps. The H.264 (foxy) encode is based on a modified version of Sharktooth's SA-HD-DVD profile.

It lost it on killing at 26 seconds, but regained it's composure at about 32 seconds. A bit strange, because it peaks at 18mbps at 23 seconds, and from there on it looks as though it would be a lower bitrate (unless Haali's splitter is not telling me the truth).

Is it possible for you to encode this clip again at CRF 18 or so with x264? It may sound backward, but I have a feeling it may play back better. You see this chipset is supposed to be MPEG-1/MPEG-2/H.264 + VC-1, which leads me to believe that ASP is decoded via software, and obviously since the major formats have hardware decoding, it's not like they are going to put a killer CPU in there just to decode ASP, AAC, Vorbis and show simple SRT subtitles. So I'm guessing that ASP is failing at 18mbps is a CPU limitation rather than HW decoder limitation. After all, they say that this player is capable of level 4; which would be a hardcore settings 720x480 @ 20mbps, or a not so hardcore 720p @ 20mbps (I've not done a lot of 720p encodes, but I gather it can quickly go over level 4 just by the number of reference frames).

The BBC-HD tests it's been playing are around 20mbps and IIRC are 1440x1080i with anamorphic flag (they may even be 1920x1080i and I'm getting mixed up with encodes from the other HD trial channels), however I expect these use a large bitrate and relaxed encoding settings.

Foxy is perfect, now plays without re-muxing, and it peaks at 15mbps no problem, although there is little motion, so it's a more forgiving clip. Also, even though I'm on a 576 line PAL 16:9 TV with RGB Scart, it looked pretty damn awesome quality.

anubisx00:
Encode plays fine, no issues whatsoever.

Thanks for the test files guys.

[Zero1]

Also, I may have said this elsewhere, but note that ASP@L5 is 720x576, 30fps 8mbps max, so the fact that it plays 720p ASP is already performing beyond spec, so we can't be too dissapointed I suppose.