Official "This Part of the Guide SUCKS!" thread

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:41 pm

ErMaC wrote:If you know the theory of 3:2 pulldown, and you know what colorspaces are, and you know how AVI files work, it doesn't matter what the other tools you're using are called this month, you'll be able to figure out how to use them.

I second this, and would like to throw in another problem with "quick and dirty" guides:

In many cases, there is no quick and dirty solution to what's going on. Inverse telecine is a great example.

With anime, sometimes you may get lucky and you'll get a 24fps progressive DVD. Maybe it'll be telecined but in a very regular pattern that DVD2AVI can remove right then and there. Maybe it'll be one of the unfortunate cases that requires the brute force of Telecide to repair. Maybe it'll be one of those cases where it's mixed 24fps telecined / 29.97fps interlaced, in which case you'll have to be careful about what you do. Maybe it's one of those really terrible cases that's extraordinarily difficult or impossible to inverse telecine, in which case you'd better start looking for a good adaptive deinterlacer. If you were to do that, you'd need to start tweaking parameters to deinterlace just what you need. Or, hey, maybe it's not even telecined at all. Maybe it's true interlaced material.

The trouble with quick and dirty guides -- as I hope is clear now -- is that they become less of a guide and more of a decision tree. Unfortunately, in video processing, that decision tree is HUGE. It's so big that it's much more beneficial to teach theory, provide examples, etc and leave it to the reader to figure out what is best.

I guess at this point I might as well just suggest that links to supplementary sources be included in the Guide for those who want fast access to further information. Here's a few I've found useful.

The AVISynth manual, which should be required reading:
http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=AviSynthManual

Lots of information pertinent to aspect ratio, as well as a few exercises on conversion:
http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/

Charles Poynton's Color FAQ and Gamma FAQ, which are very technical and have a much broader focus than just digital video, but are useful nonetheless:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/colour_and ... maFAQ.html
http://www.poynton.com/notes/colour_and ... orFAQ.html

There's a lot of neat stuff in Donald Graft's Technical Library, too, but a lot of it is beyond me.

DriftRoots · Post by **DriftRoots** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:07 am

klinky wrote:Ok, I think a few things need to be explained a bit more in depth in the begining. Like starting at the very basics.

Maybe we need to have a pointer to some sort of "Basics of Computing" website. Some of the people reading the guides can barely use their mouse :p. Many of them have no clue about how data is stored on their computer in MB/KB/Bits/Bytes...

I humbly point out that anyone who does not have a good grasp of far more than the basics of computing probably should not even think about making an AMV until they've taken it upon themselves to get up to speed. "Basic computer guides" are not something any guide-maker should have to worry about! If you can't grasp their concepts/procedures, then maybe you aren't ready for them yet. If nothing else, the AMV process is a cold slap in the face even for people who are fairly confident of their computer skills.
Demanding a simplier/easier guide be made because you can't understand the current one (which is complex, but logical) is like telling your calculus professor that he needs to tone things waaayyy down just b/c you never learned how to add and subtract. It's not the teacher's responsibility to make up for YOUR shortcomings.

So, yeah, AD ideas for upgrades make sense and is good good. Can't wait to see it. In the meantime, is there anything in particular you would want people NOT to follow in your guide b/c it is too outdated? I'm about to jump on the crazy-AMVer bandwagon again and would like to avoid using codecs or other items that will cause horrendous problems down the road. Thanks!

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:13 am

DriftRoots wrote:In the meantime, is there anything in particular you would want people NOT to follow in your guide b/c it is too outdated?

That's a good question.

On the whole, I think the answer is as follows:

If you have followed the method in the guides as they are and they work well for you - continue using them. The guides are good. There are versions of software that are more stable and in some cases better at doing things than the ones in the guide but the improvement is negligible and the effort required in updating is considerable.

The main reasons the guides need updating are the 2.5x branch of avisynth and the new xvid releases. The 2.5x branch was under development when the guide was completed but wasnt stable. It's been stable for a long time now and the guide needs to change as does the software to keep things up-to-date.

DriftRoots · Post by **DriftRoots** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:12 pm

Mmm, good, I an get to work with a clear conscience, then. The old guide gave me the results I wanted. I've been having problems with some of the new xvid stuff out there and would really hate to find out these must be resolved before I can go forward with AMVing (again).

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:10 am

Might seem like a pretty huge request, you dont have to but... could you at least briefly address the differences between PAL and NTSC footage, like the differences between deinterlacing techniques, the differences between resolutions (i know more than a few PAL users, including myself, got mighty confused when they first got started) especially in AVISynth scripts. No need for TCing or anything like that on PAL footage.

Like I said, only if you can, it would be a real bonus to the AMV makers in countries that use PAL as a standard, like here in Australia.

Jnzk · Post by **Jnzk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:52 am

Yes a few more tips for PAL would be welcome.

WilLoW :--) · Post by **WilLoW :--)** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:10 am

Janzki wrote:Yes a few more tips for PAL would be welcome.

+1
There are more and more AMV creators from all over the world, so some "more in depth" explanations on the PAL standard (especially differences between PAL and NTSC) would be great.

(hey, wait, and what about SECAM ???? no, ok, just kidding

)

Good luck Ermac and AD, I'm really looking forward to reading this new version

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:10 pm

Add something on Matroska and MP4 for the stupid, ignorant idiots (*cough*DJ_Izumi and Danielwang*cough*)

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:22 pm

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Add something on Matroska and MP4 for the stupid, ignorant idiots (*cough*DJ_Izumi and Danielwang*cough*)

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:49 pm

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Add something on Matroska and MP4 for the stupid, ignorant idiots (*cough*DJ_Izumi and Danielwang*cough*)

Just add links to their respective websites.