I think I figured it out! Soap feeling.

Nekoboy Sal · Post by **Nekoboy Sal** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:53 pm

I think I finally figured it out!
Your channel surfing and you stop on a station. You imediatly say "This is a soap." But how can you tell? It just has that feeling that look.
I think I finally put my finger on what it is. It must be the framerate! I think soaps are shot in TV speed of 30fps (I can't remember the decimal at the moment).
I'v been watching soaps here for a while (here means Irland), and I can't imidialy say "this is a soap." Over here PAL is used wicht is 25fps, so a change from 25fps to 24fps, isn't that nocible.

Diagram

america:
Standard TV is 30fps
Standard film is 24fps

30fps = soap
24fps = normal TV stuff
--------------------
06fps diffrence

Europe
Standard TV is 25fps
Standard film is 24fps

25fps = soap
24fps = normal TV stuff
--------------------
01fps diffrence

News is probably in 30fps as well as other things. I'm probably wrong, but don't you think I'm smart for thinking about this?

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:25 pm

....

this is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

narcted · Post by **narcted** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:37 pm

I don't think so. Your TV is different than ours. I don't think it's able to display the NTSC standard. So if you're watching it, the TV station has probably converted it to PAL. Not only that, your eye reloads at rate too slow to tell the difference between 24 an 30 fps. I think the eye is something like 15-20 fps and it will think it's continious motion.

What I think is more reasonable is that your brain's hypothalamus (and anyone who was at the AX AMV Workshop, please feel free to add. Credit for the idea goes to the moderators) is conditioned to know what's normal. If you glance and see something that's not normal, it triggers your brain to stop and identify the anamoly. If anything, it's your brain analyzing the content of the picture, and not the frame rate that it's being broadcast at, that tells you the trash you're watching is a soap.

DaNuKa_SAN · Post by **DaNuKa_SAN** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:44 pm

around 24 fps is continuous motion for the human eye.

also its the filters and lenses and lighting they use that creates that ackward difference...

even DivX tries to dive u that "film" effect

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:05 pm

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:....

this is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

I agree. This next comment of mine might also be dumb, but this is the way I see it.

24fps is the standard framerate for Film, that is, anything shown in a cinema. Its diddled with when its converted to either PAL or NTSC (i dont really know the tech side that well) but if its PAL, its either 25fps Progressive or 25fps interlaced. With NTSC, its 29.97 interlaced or 23.976 Progressive. Thats for digital video, DVD, whatever.

I dont know about the TV (analogue signal) side of things, although I'm assumin that its PAL = 25fps and NTSC = 29.97 just to keep things slightly simpler. I'm not too sure though.

AD, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

godix · Post by **godix** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:29 am

Unless you're watching a DVD if it's on your tv it ain't 24FPS. Even with DVDs it still isn't 24FPS unless you've got 3:2 pulldown correction on your player.

I can't say I've ever spent a lot of time watching soaps but most soaps I've seen have similarly styled characters, frequent staring contests between men or women doing a very unconvincing acting job at crying, and a lighting style much lower and more moody than other programs. You're unconciously picking up on the stylistic aspects of soaps. On the off chance this topic actually relates to AMVs in some way, to recreate that feel study the style instead of the FPS.

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:57 am

godix wrote:Unless you're watching a DVD if it's on your tv it ain't 24FPS. Even with DVDs it still isn't 24FPS unless you've got 3:2 pulldown correction on your player.

Depends on your place in the world too. I live in PAL world, so everything I see is in 25fps. Seriously, it prevents alot of headaches when it comes to making AMVs, theres none of this IVTCing and crap to do to the video before editing it. Just a basic deinterlacer does the trick. And if you're lucky enough to be uding PAL-Progressive footage, like the PAL releases of Titan AE and Animatrix, it makes it even easier.

klinky · Post by **klinky** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:22 am

You can get true progressive playback on HDTVs with NTSC-FILM DVDs.

It really depends on the camera and the method used for filming. Some soaps over here don't look too bad. Some actually look like they were shot using 24fps. But I am not sure exactly what they use. Passions on NBC looks like it was shot with a camcorder. True NTSC-Video is interlaced. That means 60 fields per second. To your eyes/brain that is perceived as 60 frames per second. To me this can be jarringly smooth and makes home videos shot with a camcorder look so cheesey to me

.

Maybe that's what you notice? I am not sure %100 sure... :p

Nekoboy Sal · Post by **Nekoboy Sal** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:50 pm

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:....

this is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

Why is that dumb?. Point out exactaly what is wrong with that on the theory side. I can watch a soap for 5 seconds and know. If it is the filters, then what are those filters?

godix wrote:Unless you're watching a DVD if it's on your tv it ain't 24FPS. Even with DVDs it still isn't 24FPS unless you've got 3:2 pulldown correction on your player.

I know that its not displayed at 24fps, but it was originaly made in it and is diffrent from 30fps even if add the extra frames in 24fps (they are basicly the same frames anyway).

I'm going to go watch TV in PAL and NTSC, I think I an prosess the diffrence. I probably can't.
And my TV does take NTSC and PAL with the internet too! (got it off a jipsy for €200)

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:44 pm

Nekoboy Sal wrote:
AbsoluteDestiny wrote:....

this is the dumbest thing I've read all day.
Why is that dumb?. Point out exactaly what is wrong with that on the theory side. I can watch a soap for 5 seconds and know. If it is the filters, then what are those filters?

godix wrote:Unless you're watching a DVD if it's on your tv it ain't 24FPS. Even with DVDs it still isn't 24FPS unless you've got 3:2 pulldown correction on your player.
I know that its not displayed at 24fps, but it was originaly made in it and is diffrent from 30fps even if add the extra frames in 24fps (they are basicly the same frames anyway).

I'm going to go watch TV in PAL and NTSC, I think I an prosess the diffrence. I probably can't.
And my TV does take NTSC and PAL with the internet too! (got it off a jipsy for €200)

Its dumb because its wrong. TV genres have nothing to do with the framerate. What DOES is whether it is being watched in the cinema or on the TV. the international standard for FILM is 24fps. I mean, you cant exactly have 29.97fps when you're dealing with celluloid, now can you? Fractional framerates are used in digital video.

And the rest of your post here makes NO sense at all. You cant percieve a difference in framerate between PAL and NTSC consciously anyway.