Make an AMV. Buy a Powerbook.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:24 pm

alternatefutures wrote:Well Zaliek, I hope you're getting one of those new G5s that Apple announced today, and not one with a crappy Motorola chip. I've got to say though, Apple's design team seems to be losing it. The G5 case is definately a step down from the purdy G4's.

I agree, it's a step up from Moto, but at the same time not the hottest thing in the world. Not by a longshot actually.

alternatefutures · Post by **alternatefutures** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:51 am

Heh, I've been on geek.com "discussing" the G5 with the Mac faithful, even said that Apple is garunteed the performance crown for two months. My only criticisms; The G5 case is plain and has less expandability than the G4 and don't believe the benchmarks published by Apple, wait for independant groups to get their hands on one before comparing systems. You'd think I was Bill Gates himself, come to buy out Apple and drive it into the ground with the response I'm getting. I've even been called an idiot because I wouldn't void the warrenty on a $3000 piece of equipment to fit it into a standard ATX case. The Mac community has successfully disuaded me from ever considering switching again. Steve, save me from your followers. I wonder what would have happened to me if I said the Athlon 64 was going to kick the PPC 970's ass.

Nightowl · Post by **Nightowl** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:21 am

You know, guys... I like working on my Mac. I do better work on it, and I'm faster on it. I have a damned good video card in it, and I can cut a feature length film on it. I've made a lot of money using it for freelance work. So you know what? Anyone can throw me all the specs they want. They can say "BLAH BLAH BLIBBITY HOOPLAH" and I still don't care. I simply work better with it, and I like the projects I do on it far more than the ones I do on my PC. Why not just leave everyone the fuck alone and say live and let live? I like my computer. It's powerful. It makes pretty things. Leave me alone.

-N

alternatefutures · Post by **alternatefutures** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:39 pm

Nightowl wrote:So you know what? Anyone can throw me all the specs they want. They can say "BLAH BLAH BLIBBITY HOOPLAH" and I still don't care. I simply work better with it, and I like the projects I do on it far more than the ones I do on my PC. Why not just leave everyone the fuck alone and say live and let live?... Leave me alone.

And this is what happens when you don't read the thread. Your post reminds me of a kid who pokes at a calm hornets nest yelling "Don't come out and sting me!"

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:54 pm

alternatefutures wrote:don't believe the benchmarks published by Apple, wait for independant groups to get their hands on one before comparing systems.

Funny you talk about not trusting their benchmarks. I found this article on theinquirer (also on /.) that talks about that. All the unfair advantages, the misleading and so on. Basically all this proves is that the G5 still isn't faster than a typical x86 PC. At the same time, they have closed the gap considerably, but no performance crown like they claim.

alternatefutures wrote:I wonder what would have happened to me if I said the Athlon 64 was going to kick the PPC 970's ass.

You'd be right...I hope

. Considering the G5 can't even beat an Athlon, I'd assume it couldn't beat a Athlon 64 either since that's the next generation.

Nightowl: Don't get me wrong in any of my posts. I do in fact support your stance. if you work better with it and it does everything you want better (to you), than by all means. Please don't take me the wrong way, this is purely a technical discussion and not meant to really gather followers. I too have thought about buying a Powerbook since A) they are sleek, light and nice and B) Final Cut Pro 3.0.

Ashyukun · Post by **Ashyukun** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:17 pm

dwchang wrote: I too have thought about buying a Powerbook since A) they are sleek, light and nice and B) Final Cut Pro 3.0.

I wouldn't buy another Powerbook, at least not a 12" one like my wife's- though I admittedly wouldn't mind a nice powerful G4 (or G5 when they start selling them). Her Powerbook is quite nice, very light and cool looking and all- but it runs insanely hot, to the point where it's impossible to use it on your lap without something insulating your legs from it (like a pillow or laptop case, not just your pants). It gets hot enough for the top of the case around the touchpad to be uncomfortable to the touch- and the bottom is far worse. I know it's nowhere near as fast, but my Celeron laptop never gets nearly that hot...

alternatefutures · Post by **alternatefutures** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:41 pm

There is also this article at amdzone that talks about the suspicious benchmarks and to a lesser extent how Apple really doesn't want to even acknowledge AMD's existance. But my initial comments were simply on Apple's claims that the G5 runs Photoshop 2.3X faster than an Intel-based machine. I knew Apple's tests there were horribly biased as groups who tested Photoshop but didn't use Apple's benchmark all too often came out with very different results, generally with the x86 winning. Honestly, I took the SPEC scores at face value, mainly because I never cared about those umbrella-type benchmarks. I'm still waiting for people to get their hands on all three new processors before I make a judgement, but this definately does not bode well for Apple.[/url]

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:58 pm

alternatefutures wrote:There is also this article at amdzone that talks about the suspicious benchmarks and to a lesser extent how Apple really doesn't want to even acknowledge AMD's existance. But my initial comments were simply on Apple's claims that the G5 runs Photoshop 2.3X faster than an Intel-based machine. I knew Apple's tests there were horribly biased as groups who tested Photoshop but didn't use Apple's benchmark all too often came out with very different results, generally with the x86 winning. Honestly, I took the SPEC scores at face value, mainly because I never cared about those umbrella-type benchmarks. I'm still waiting for people to get their hands on all three new processors before I make a judgement, but this definately does not bode well for Apple.

(nod nod)

At the same time, it's funny since Apple was (i heard) THAT close to using our chips for G5. Funny that they didn't since it performs worse than an Athlon and they could've gotten Athlon 64's.

Just wait till...Q3/4 for us and Intel's Prescott (or so I've heard). It will be interesting around Christmas time this year.

Nightowl · Post by **Nightowl** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:46 pm

alternatefutures wrote:And this is what happens when you don't read the thread. Your post reminds me of a kid who pokes at a calm hornets nest yelling "Don't come out and sting me!"

Actually, I did read the thread. I've BEEN reading this thread for awhile. And as far as I can tell, whenever a Mac person sticks their head out on this site, a dozen PC people come in and start some shit. Yes, Mac people start shit as well, but this thread was - in the beginning - a thread about some guy just looking for answers about his decision to buy a Powerbook. Look at how quickly it became a PCs are faster thing. The other thing I've noticed is that you refuse to give the Mac any kind of acknowledgement whatsoever. If I have missed one of your posts that did not come off immediately as defensive, then quote it and I'll believe you. You can't even respect my stance or understand how it must look to someone like me.

dwchang wrote:Nightowl: Don't get me wrong in any of my posts. I do in fact support your stance. if you work better with it and it does everything you want better (to you), than by all means. Please don't take me the wrong way, this is purely a technical discussion and not meant to really gather followers. I too have thought about buying a Powerbook since A) they are sleek, light and nice and B) Final Cut Pro 3.0.

Thank you for understanding. The thread has been very interesting to read, as I don't really follow things on such a purely technical level and therefore don't really know much about it. I just wish people would start realizing that you can't benchmark an opinion or how well someone works with a particular system - after a certain number of arguments and people acting like assholes toward you based on the equipment you use, you tend to get a little... paranoid? Defensive, there it is.

-N

alternatefutures · Post by **alternatefutures** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:10 pm

Ah, but I do understand how it looks to you. For instance, here is my first post:

[/quote]Some info: Apple is NOT considering switching to AMD or Intel. If they move from Motorola the top contender is IBM's PPC970, of which Apple has purchased several hundred thousand, and some people are even saying to expect the switch this month. I give low odds on that, but Apple tends to keep things hushed up until the last second, so its possible (in which case my condolences to everyone who bought a Mac recently). If Apple can maintain its prices with dual PPC970 solutions the balance of computing power could shift dramatically. The current Motorola chips lag behind AMD and Intel solutions, even in dual configuration. The situation if Apple sticks with Motorola will become critical when AMD releases the Athlon 64 later this year and Intel releases Prescott early next year.

The only thing the Mac is actually better at is in the print industry, as it has better color matching between what's displayed on the monitor and what comes out from the printer. Since you don't print out AMVs, there's no advantage to the Mac, save FCP. Of course, the PC has programs to match FCP: Vegas and Avid Xpress Pro.

For OSes, stability between XP and OSX are at parity, maybe OSX is a tiny-weeny bit more stable than XP, but it's nothing to brag about. Both of these OSes bog down their systems, OSX more so than XP. For stability and speed you want Win2K. Otherwise, use what you know.

Anyway, if you think Apple will move to an x86 architechture you're dreaming. Apple wants control over the hardware its OS runs on, and the idea of bargain basement manufacturers selling machines made with shoddy components that run OSX is not something they want to deal with. The main reason you hear more about XP problems is the varying quality controls across PC manufacturers. If OSX was allowed to roam free you'd hear the same complaints.[/quote]

And here is how I expect you read it:

Some info: Apple is NOT considering switching to AMD or Intel. If they move from Motorola the top contender is IBM's PPC970. Fat chance. If Apple can maintain its massively high prices with dual PPC970 solutions it will still suck just as it sucks now, and Prescott and Athlon 64 will destroy it.

The only thing the Mac is actually better at is in the print industry, and even then its slow and not really "better" at all. There's no advantage to the Mac. PCs have all the best software, like Vegas and Avid Xpress Pro.

For OSes, XP and Linux both rule over OS X. OS X is a piece of crap and really bogs down the system. For stability and speed you want Win2K. If you use OS X, you're an idiot.

Anyway, if you think Apple will move to an x86 architechture you're dreaming. Apple wants control over the hardware its OS runs on, because it is evil incarnate, and the idea of bargain basement manufacturers giving consumers the freedom to choose how their computer is made is something Apple does not want. The main reason you hear more about XP problems is that Apple users are fanatics and will never admit something is wrong with their systems, while Wintel users are always rational thinkers who gladly criticise their products so that they will improve. If OSX was allowed to roam free the Apple line would be exposed as the piece of crap it really is.

Steve Jobs drinks the blood of children