Off Topic Section Removed

FirestormXIII · Post by **FirestormXIII** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:22 am

This thing got completely out of hand about 20 some-odd pages ago. The gloaters, the complainers, all of you are looking exactly like one another, only standing on different sides.

Does anyone remember the thread where Phade put up a poll to see who wanted to bring SpPanda back? And does anyone remember the outcome of discussion being allowed to take place? In large part, the forum failed miserably, because it couldn't hold a reasonable discourse among itself.

Guess what? It just failed again, and sadly, far worse than last time. There were some good points made, but out of 34 pages of this bullshit, it's like a drop in the bucket. What the fuck are you people arguing out of? Pride? Amusement? Whatever the hell it is, let it go.

To the 'whiners': It's Phade's site, he's obviously made his decision, you're not going to change his mind by voicing the same opinion over, and over, and over, and over, and...you get the idea. If you have a point, make it, and have a little patience to see where things go. If you just keep posting, things are bound to go downhill, and any good point you made is going to get buried in 20 pages of crap, much like we've just seen.

To the 'gloaters': By egging people on and letting the crap continue, you're only adding to the problem. That means you're making things worse too, and thereby are no better than the people you're gloating over. If you really want to prove that the OT dwellers are as bad as you say, then it shouldn't be difficult to get your jollies without posting anything and watch as they seal their fate. But if you can't do that, then are you really any better?

I should also say that I'm not throwing everyone who's posted into one of the two categories. There is a middle ground, and there are people who seem to be standing on it. I'm one of those people. I post all around this damn forum, and I've had fun everywhere I've gone. I've met great people, and built some good friendships from all the sections of the forum, not just the top or the bottom.
While I'll be sad to see OT go, I understand the reasons for it having to be so. Will the ends justify the means? Only time can tell, so I'll just wait and see. I know that OT being gone isn't going to affect how much I come here or talk to anyone though. I lurked on this site for a long time without ever posting to the forums, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be affected even if the forums were shut down entirely.

As it is though, I sincerely hope that Phade locks or deletes this thread and that it stays that way. I would really rather not remember what I consider one of the lowest points of human communication in the forum's history. I find almost this entire thread to be incredibly petty, and it saddens me because I think that we're all better than this.

Much better.

danielwang · Post by **danielwang** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:38 am

Firestorm;

Well said, my thoughts - almost exactly.

I understand your rationale.
Goofing off forums are fine, but not in excess. And definitely not on the a-m-v.org

But what's with the thread locking? I thoughts that's what mods were for. Couldn't Phade have just enlisted a few mods? Sure, it got out of control. But I see WOT as, in intention, a destructured discussions forum that was meant for positive additions to the community.

Ok, I DID play a major role into turning it into a forum dumpster. I apologixe for my irresponsibility and immaturity.

I can only hope that the nonsense is cut once WOT is gone.

[MOD359]This thread had been PRUNED. All the crap in here is now gone. If you would like to continue this discussion in a rational and articulate manner, please feel free to continue posting. However, anything deemed to be off topic to the subject of this thread, which is the removal of the off-topic forums will be deleted.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:36 am

Since one can always be optimistic:

I'd STRONGLY suggest that, should the off-topic forums return, a mod vote for the off-topic forums should be held, and moderators picked from the forum populace put into action.

Although this is likely a pipe dream, bear with me:

1. Since there didn't seem to be enough mod coverage in those forums (or in general) and the idiocy was allowed to pile up. Getting more mods to police those areas would've helped, which brings me to point 2:

2. Since Phade chose the mods, perhaps they were hampered in a sense? Any bad or unpopular action on the part of the mods could, in Phade's reasoning, reflect badly on him, too, so they had more restraint, perhaps? Having the community pick off-topic mods would allow Phade to wipe his hands of the matter, in a "You people brought this upon yourselves" fashion. If the off-topic forum is going south, well, it's been temporarily shut down several times already - lock it again and strip the moderators of their privileges. This kind of ties into point 3:

3. In locking the off-topic forums, it would suggest to me that Phade, rightfully, doesn't judge the off-topic forums to be a crucial part of the general forum, or the site itself. Thus, why should this fakey pose of regard for the off-topic forums be maintained? It's obvious that the off-topic forums are not on the same level of respectability as the AMV and technical help ones are. Throw it to the masses, let them determine how they want the random chaos organized and controlled, and focus on the REAL meat of the site, which is anime and video stuff.

If the off-topic forums are cubic zirconias in a jewelry box of diamonds, then perhaps it's wiser and easier to not be so hung up on them?

So, to sum up my post:

Back up a few threads, super wipe the off-topic forums, get some known mods from out of the forum populace, and see what happens. It can't get any worse than it has already....

Do consider it.

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:50 am

kthulhu wrote:Since one can always be optimistic:

I'd STRONGLY suggest that, should the off-topic forums return, a mod vote for the off-topic forums should be held, and moderators picked from the forum populace put into action.

Although this is likely a pipe dream, bear with me:

1. Since there didn't seem to be enough mod coverage in those forums (or in general) and the idiocy was allowed to pile up. Getting more mods to police those areas would've helped, which brings me to point 2:

2. Since Phade chose the mods, perhaps they were hampered in a sense? Any bad or unpopular action on the part of the mods could, in Phade's reasoning, reflect badly on him, too, so they had more restraint, perhaps? Having the community pick off-topic mods would allow Phade to wipe his hands of the matter, in a "You people brought this upon yourselves" fashion. If the off-topic forum is going south, well, it's been temporarily shut down several times already - lock it again and strip the moderators of their privileges. This kind of ties into point 3:

3. In locking the off-topic forums, it would suggest to me that Phade, rightfully, doesn't judge the off-topic forums to be a crucial part of the general forum, or the site itself. Thus, why should this fakey pose of regard for the off-topic forums be maintained? It's obvious that the off-topic forums are not on the same level of respectability as the AMV and technical help ones are. Throw it to the masses, let them determine how they want the random chaos organized and controlled, and focus on the REAL meat of the site, which is anime and video stuff.

If the off-topic forums are cubic zirconias in a jewelry box of diamonds, then perhaps it's wiser and easier to not be so hung up on them?

So, to sum up my post:

Back up a few threads, super wipe the off-topic forums, get some known mods from out of the forum populace, and see what happens. It can't get any worse than it has already....

Do consider it.

I heartily encourage very serious consideration of this suggestion. It is working just fine at several other forums I know. I realise that you might not want to elect sitewide mods without knowing them (that's a different kettle of fish), and although I don't understand why you do not wish for us to know them, that is your prerogative as owner of this website. However, for a community forum such as OT, democracy and openness might be needed to ease the minds of the cynics, and to help keep things in line. Even if you only run this as a trial, please at least try to do that. It's impossible to predict what would happen until you try, and the results may well be poor, but in which case, you can relock the forums after a decent trial period and say with evidence that it is an unsatisfactory solution.

I think that elections from a list of nominated members for moderatorship allows the members that the community knows and respects to be put into a position whereby they can give something back to the site, and alleviate the undeniably stressful job of keeping the forum and dsite ticking over. Of course, the final say on whether or not a member gains said moderator powers is yours, but allowing us to suggest good candidates isn't such a bad idea.

Finally, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater- if you don't like some part of kthulhu's plan, please consider the other parts nonetheless.

I hope you take this post in the best possible light, which is the sense in which I am trying to write it.

Yours,

~Savia

ErMaC · Post by **ErMaC** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:11 pm

If all you off-topic people want your own forum so badly, why don't you go create one? There's no reason Phade should have to run a forum run by and for you guys on HIS site.

OT was not in line with the mission of this website, hence it is gone. Having a bunch of self-moderation there wouldn't change that.

yuppa · Post by **yuppa** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:43 pm

jbone wrote:Funny how the only people upset are the undesirables that the people who have HALF AN OUNCE OF INTELLECT would rather see gone, anyway.

None of the people saying they _need_ it there contribute anything worthwhile anywhere else, and the "anywhere else" is the important part of this forum.

Spam won't increase elsewhere, it'll be deleted. Phade will get more moderators if he needs to.

No forum needs a place for the useless shit to be thrown; rather, all forums need less useless shit.

This action is the first step to actually make these forums marginally useful again.

Now, all wee need is a 2-week waiting period in which people can read but not post after first creating an account.

Well J bone i myself have goten some good ideas for vids from those forums, but its ok. i understand his decision its his forum and he can do as he wants too , oh question? who wants someones e mail and address oh and credit card nmber hehe J/k, but anyway its cool, and it does tend to take away from the main interest of the site. I admit some of us were geting a little Out of control, like me with the pirate thread, but it still didnt dull my interest in doing a vid. WHen i get my dvd drive il post somemup but till then i will look around. and enjoy the rest of the site. BUt its not fair to get on someone elses case j bone cause they arent the same as you. its al a matter of opinion. THe freedom to suck is what makes the internet great,"Qouth, Srah the boring" 8)

Brsrk · Post by **Brsrk** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:11 pm

ErMaC wrote:If all you off-topic people want your own forum so badly, why don't you go create one? There's no reason Phade should have to run a forum run by and for you guys on HIS site.

OT was not in line with the mission of this website, hence it is gone. Having a bunch of self-moderation there wouldn't change that.

You are right ErMaC... It's his site, he can do what he wants, despite how much people would hate it...

I'm usually a n00b helper, so it doesn't matter that it's gone, I just looked at it for humor and to kill time when not playing Euchre or making AMVs, or other things.

I agree with FLint on the suicide thing, that's something that you would keep in your own life, not spread it to other places and let others help you because some of their points could be wrong...

And I agree with dwchang, if you don't like it, leave, it's that simple...

I am sorta glad it's gone, maybe we can get more smash hit AMVs like FIRE! or Excel Pop Up or Euphoira... ::continues AMV::

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:06 pm

kthulhu just sparked an idea.

even though it's not likely going to be implemented, i'd just like to add my 2 cents for today.

It's been said that many of the OT people don't have lives, therefore they have much more time to post and if given the ability, to Mod.

So the plan would be:
Phade's Mods = oversees member mods
member mods = members, who regularly visit the OT, given access to moderate OT sections and overseen by Mods

the access lvl would be = editing posts for bandwith theft, warez/hentai/etc links
thread movement can still be restricted to Mods

There are several problems with the plan, i can sense it, nevertheless, it's my $0.02.

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:21 pm

Final Saiyyan wrote:is that not what the have already ?
angel x03 is a mod .
i think?

all parts considered, the current system of modding is fine when not dealing with the OT, however, due to the OT's "dynamic" nature, the Mods, who as ppl have said have lives, don't have the time and energy to deal with the OT material, and therefore problems can acumalate.

but having people with no lives modding would relieve the Mods and Phade of having to constantly deal with the amount of said garbage.

for some reason i keep thinking of the karma system....perhaps similiar ideas can by worked out into the OT.

but again, the OT isn't coming back as Phade has said. Me +1 post count.

Chaos Angel · Post by **Chaos Angel** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:24 pm

milotehcat wrote:11a k/.
'

Oh, God...

I know I said my piece on this already, but, well, I'ma do it again.

Does anyone really think that complaining about it is going to help?

Forget all the other debates and points brought up, just tell me, do you think complaining about it is going to help?

I'm sure he knew when he clicked the Lock button that people would be upset about it. He probably anticipated a reaction exactly this huge. He knew it would piss a whole fuckton of people off. You are not telling him anything he didn't anticipate or expect.

Personally, I don't think any of this thread is going to have ANY effect on him or do ANYTHING to change his mind. At all. He knew it would piss people off, he knew people would ask for it back, he had to, but he did it anyway, and complaining is not going to change his mind. And bringing back stuff like milotehcat is only going to re-inforce the reasons behind the decision in the first place.

I am sad to see OT go. I think it detracts from the diversity of the forum and creates a severe limit on what can be discussed within. I think it is a harmful decision for the good of the forum. But it is not going to affect the AMV community much. As far as the community is concerned, it just means we have to go to other boards or to AIM or to Livejournal if we want to discuss Last Samurai or exchange fucking cookie recipes. People will still make music videos. Some people have taken a shot to the morale by the loss of OT, and that saddens me, but they still have the desire to edit. It sucks that we can no longer debate whether or not the new Transformer toys are better than the old ones from the 80's, yes, but this too shall pass, guys. Nothing is static, and we need to accept that.

Course, I admit, I was not around OT as much as some other people I know were, and maybe that's why it didn't hit me as strongly as it did some folks. I spent about as much time in OT as I did anywhere else. So, take what I have to say with a grain of salt or three. Hell, take it with a whole bucket of salt. Then put it on your head and pretend to live in it like the Bucket guy from Rejected. It'll take your mind off of things.

Oh, and Hatter? Ditch the superiority complex, it makes you look like a jackass.