let's make this place greaterer!!!!

[Zarxrax]

With instrumental videos there are no lyrics that the video must conform to. Thus it results in a different type of AMV, one where the video must be driven solely on the creativity of the creator, rather than by the lyrics.

I've made an instrumental video. And I have no clue what you're babbling about amidst all the spooge.

I have no creativity, and I made one. OMG WHAT HAPPEN. THIS SHOULD NOT BE! Neither was it a groundbreaking brain-exploding tower of originality. It was a video without lyrics. The end.

Besides, nobody "must conform" to the lyrics in a song with lyrics, either.

Funny how you're making up elaborate explanations when the actual explanation already makes sense and is fairly simple. That's life, I guess. Thanks for the moment of entertainment, self-importance is so funny.

Um... O_o
If ou didn't use any creativity them what did your video consist of, pretale? Did you merely throw an episode on the timeline and close your eyes and chop it up into small clips which you randomly placed alongside the music?
And if you don't conform to the lyrics, then the video is going to be fucking weird. I don't mean you have to lyric match like a nazi, but you can't take something like "Mystikal - Shake Your Ass" and make a dramatic Grave of the Fireflies video to it (or maybe you can... *marks down in list of ideas for Hell 3*). The lyrics determine VERY MUCH what you can do with your video. With an instrumental piece, you can tell any story you want to, with any anime you want to.

Not really sure what you meant by all that stuff in your last paragraph...

[Otohiko]

It's Sarah reacting to reasonable if relatively-assertive statements in a less-than-mild fashion. What else is new?

[Arigatomina]

And if you don't conform to the lyrics, then the video is going to be fucking weird. I don't mean you have to lyric match like a nazi, but you can't take something like "Mystikal - Shake Your Ass" and make a dramatic Grave of the Fireflies video to it (or maybe you can... *marks down in list of ideas for Hell 3*). The lyrics determine VERY MUCH what you can do with your video.

I take it you've never used a song in a foreign language? There are people on this site who don't speak or read the english language. They make amvs using songs in English - and those vids don't conform to the lyrics at all. They conform to the *sound* of the lyrics. For all intents and purposes, their videos may as well be instrumental - with the singing just another 'instrument' you hear - where you make your own meaning.

There are a lot of people - yes, even the pros - who use Japanese songs and completely ignore the lyrics. Why does no one tell them their videos are weird as a result? How about "Right Now Somebody is Reading This Title?" That song uses lyrics in spots - because they work with the video - and ignores them in others. Is that weird? No. It's creative license.

No one is forced to use lyrics, and even when people choose to use them, their interpretation of those words vary from person to person. This is no different from what 'vision' I might have listening to an instrumental vid versus the 'vision' someone else gets. The only conformity, the only limitation, is on the editor. I can be just as imaginative and 'free' using a song with lyrics, as I can with a song without lyrics. I can make up my own story by making the lyrics work for me - not by twisting my story to fit the lyrics. The only thing instrumantal songs do, is make it easier for the storyteller.

That's no reason to call it a genre of itself. It would be like saying Linkin Park is a genre because it makes it easy to do a mindless action video (since the lyrics are almost always ignored, they may as well not exist).

The reason there's an instrumental category is for the VCA's - and to make it nice for searching out vids without words. It's not a genre of video any more than "songs with lyrics" is a genre. Can't have one without the other, right? It's a category, and a useful one.

With an instrumental piece, you can tell any story you want to, with any anime you want to.

You can do the same thing with a Japanese song if you ignore the literal meaning of those 'sounds/words' you hear. We don't consider "foreign language songs" instrumental. So the stunning thing that separates Instrumental from regular songs is not the ability to make a story from it. It's simply the lack of words.

[Zarxrax]

I take it you've never used a song in a foreign language? There are people on this site who don't speak or read the english language. They make amvs using songs in English - and those vids don't conform to the lyrics at all. They conform to the *sound* of the lyrics. For all intents and purposes, their videos may as well be instrumental - with the singing just another 'instrument' you hear - where you make your own meaning.

There are a lot of people - yes, even the pros - who use Japanese songs and completely ignore the lyrics. Why does no one tell them their videos are weird as a result? How about "Right Now Somebody is Reading This Title?" That song uses lyrics in spots - because they work with the video - and ignores them in others. Is that weird? No. It's creative license.

No one is forced to use lyrics, and even when people choose to use them, their interpretation of those words vary from person to person. This is no different from what 'vision' I might have listening to an instrumental vid versus the 'vision' someone else gets. The only conformity, the only limitation, is on the editor. I can be just as imaginative and 'free' using a song with lyrics, as I can with a song without lyrics. I can make up my own story by making the lyrics work for me - not by twisting my story to fit the lyrics. The only thing instrumantal songs do, is make it easier for the storyteller.

That's no reason to call it a genre of itself. It would be like saying Linkin Park is a genre because it makes it easy to do a mindless action video (since the lyrics are almost always ignored, they may as well not exist).

The reason there's an instrumental category is for the VCA's - and to make it nice for searching out vids without words. It's not a genre of video any more than "songs with lyrics" is a genre. Can't have one without the other, right? It's a category, and a useful one.

With an instrumental piece, you can tell any story you want to, with any anime you want to.

You can do the same thing with a Japanese song if you ignore the literal meaning of those 'sounds/words' you hear. We don't consider "foreign language songs" instrumental. So the stunning thing that separates Instrumental from regular songs is not the ability to make a story from it. It's simply the lack of words.

Well, I intentionally avoided mentioning foreign language songs, though I am definately aware of them, particularly since some of my best friends edit to them sometimes :p
"Why does no one tell them their videos are weird?" Well, I'm sure the people that DO speak the language DO think they are weird sometimes. I've seen some Japanese MADs, where the creator ignores the english words because he doesn't understand them, and it can make for some VERY funny circumstances which I'm sure the creator didn't intend.

I don't really understand most of your other arguments regarding Right Now, as you flat out mention yourself that it follows the lyrics in spots. I'm talking more about TOTALLY ignoring the lyrics, such as if you were to set an action DBZ video to that same song.

As far as interpretation of the words, you are still using the lyrics, and thus my argument still holds.

Aside from whether it should be a genre or not, I think we agree on the same thing, but we just see it from opposite perspectives...

[Arigatomina]

I don't really understand most of your other arguments regarding Right Now, as you flat out mention yourself that it follows the lyrics in spots. I'm talking more about TOTALLY ignoring the lyrics, such as if you were to set an action DBZ video to that same song.

Well, I brought that one up because he used the lyrics when he wanted to - he wasn't forced to conform to them. You said a person was forced to conform to them. You said "the lyrics determine VERY MUCH what you can do with your video." And that, as you said, was why videos without lyrics constitute their own genre. Because the lack of lyrics creates some sort of void where there's nothing to 'comform' to. Or maybe not.

You said Instrumental is a genre because it has no lyrics to conform to. It is "driven solely on the creativity of the creator." And this - the "driven solely on the creativity of the creator" is your definition of the Instrumental "genre" of amvs - the "different type of AMV".

My problem with that? There are many songs with words that are still "driven solely on the creativity of the creator." So those songs would be listed under the "Instrumental" genre according to your definition - any song that gives forth this "different type of AMV."

Do you see my problem with your definition of Instrumental as a genre of videos instead of a type of song without words? The "different type of AMV" - the type being defined by you as "driven solely on the creativity of the creator" is not reliant on the song having a lack of words. So while it may *include* instrumental videos, it's not limited to them.

In other words, if this really is a genre made to hold this "different type of AMV" then it must allow any that are "driven solely on the creativity of the creator." In which case, any foreign language video made by someone who doesn't understand the lyrics must be included in the genre - because it's "driven solely on the creativity of the creator" and is therefore a "different type of amv" from the ones that recognize lyrics and comform to them.

I know, it's lots of talk. But I don't believe "Instrumental" is a genre of videos - not unless you include any video that ignores lyric sync. As long as you're barring songs with words - even when they match the instrumental vids in this "creativity of the creator" definition - then you're limiting the music genre. No amv genre restricts the type of music allowed. Instrumental does.

Aside from whether it should be a genre or not, I think we agree on the same thing, but we just see it from opposite perspectives...

I'm not sure. I like the idea of there being an AMV genre for videos that are "driven solely on the creativity of the creator." I just don't think any AMV genre should restrict the type of music allowed for videos in that genre. None of the other amv categories restrict the types of songs.

I see this as a sorting method - according to the type of song - with nothing to do with amv genres. Instrumental videos still fall into the classic action/comedy/drama/horror/etc genres - I don't believe they constitute a new genre themselves.

[Scintilla]

How about "Right Now Somebody is Reading This Title?" That song uses lyrics in spots - because they work with the video - and ignores them in others. Is that weird? No. It's creative license.

Um... more than anything, it's simply paralleling Van Halen's original video...

[Arigatomina]

How about "Right Now Somebody is Reading This Title?" That song uses lyrics in spots - because they work with the video - and ignores them in others. Is that weird? No. It's creative license.

Um... more than anything, it's simply paralleling Van Halen's original video...

I've never seen the original video. ^.~ I used it based off it's use of the lyrics, and ignorance of the lyrics - particularly how the viewer doesn't really notice the lyrics until the video *uses* the lyrics - with a nice text cue to remind them of the words being spoken.

Great thing about that video is you're so busy reading the text you don't realize you're ignoring the lyrics until the video reminds you. The lyrics become little more than repetitive background noise. Rather like instrumental videos. But it's a moot point.

Foreign language videos serve as a much better example of non-instrumental videos that tend to have absolutely no attachment to the lyrics.

[Zarxrax]

know, it's lots of talk. But I don't believe "Instrumental" is a genre of videos - not unless you include any video that ignores lyric sync. As long as you're barring songs with words - even when they match the instrumental vids in this "creativity of the creator" definition - then you're limiting the music genre. No amv genre restricts the type of music allowed. Instrumental does.

Dance category, anyone?

I see this as a sorting method - according to the type of song - with nothing to do with amv genres. Instrumental videos still fall into the classic action/comedy/drama/horror/etc genres - I don't believe they constitute a new genre themselves.

Well, it really comes down to what you consider a genre, and that point could be argued for eternity, because not everyone is going to agree exactly on it. (wait a minute, this IS what we are arguing >_<).

The reason there's an instrumental category is for the VCA's - and to make it nice for searching out vids without words. It's not a genre of video any more than "songs with lyrics" is a genre. Can't have one without the other, right? It's a category, and a useful one.

Thats like saying that Action videos are no more a category than "videos without action". Back to what each person feels is a "genre", I feel that having a category makes it a genre, among other things. My definition of genre simply allows many more genres than your definition.

That's no reason to call it a genre of itself. It would be like saying Linkin Park is a genre because it makes it easy to do a mindless action video (since the lyrics are almost always ignored, they may as well not exist).

I'm sure many people WOULD argue that LinkinBallZ videos are their own genre ;p


Anyways, thats my last word on this.

[Pyle]

I suggest that anyone with less than 30 given opinions who wants to force others to give opinions gets their computer hacked and their homepage set to some horrible slashdot trolling site.

Unless it's a new member on dial-up who hasn't had a chance to download more than 30 vids yet. ^.~

Dial-up scum.

Me all the way

[Arigatomina]

No amv genre restricts the type of music allowed. Instrumental does.

Dance category, anyone?

I can give you a handful of videos placed under "dance" that use very different types of music. Some are disco, some are current pop, some are techno trance remixes, some are Japanese DDR tracks, some are classical instrumental violin segments, and some - oddly enough, are rock songs.

People choose "dance" based on whether or not the video content fits their definition of the "dance genre of amvs". No one prevents them on the basis that "dance amvs can't use song with lyrics." Maybe no country music...but that would still be up for debate. ;p

Well, it really comes down to what you consider a genre, and that point could be argued for eternity, because not everyone is going to agree exactly on it. (wait a minute, this IS what we are arguing >_<).

It's an interesting discussion - I think. ^_^; But yeah, a genre tends to be difined differently by each person. Which yet again shows that Instrumental isn't a genre since it is universally defined as songs without lyrics. ;p

Like you said - with a genre "not everyone is going to agree exactly on it." So Instrumental must not be a genre, because everyone agrees it is songs without lyrics.

/now I'm playing with you ^.~