Yeah, he can use his fame to make a stand... More power to him if he does. But what the hell does being anti-war have to do with honoring the entertainment industry? That's like protesting abortion inside a record store.
There is a time and place for everything, and the Oscars were not that time. He could make a commercial, march in a peace rally, appear on TV shows to discuss the issue, posted on his website, or a million other things like other celebrities are doing.
Speeches that get booed off stage
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jonmartensen
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:50 pm
- Location: Gimmickville USA
Hey guys, I posted this at the HypeO forums yesterday, and thought it might apply here
Monday, March 24, 2003 (really freaking earlly in the morning 1:14 because I just read this)
My reply to Micheal Moore's letter
Dear Mr. Moore:
I do not think that "war" has been appropriate in handling the situation in Iraq. Bush has been foolhardy in his actions and insulting to many fellow nations that are normally in agreement with the US. But your letter is very disturbing to me. I don't mind that you dislike Bush (to put it mildly), and that you want to present an argument against war in Iraq. But your misguided attempts at argumentative logic make me ashamed to think we agree on anything about the "war" in Iraq.
Monday, March 17, 2003
A Letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush on the Eve of War
George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC
Dear Governor Bush:
So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:
This is what you believe and is your opinion, I have no argument with it, it is totally valid. Except for the Governor part /: and your "truths". I think you should work for O'Reilly on Fox News, with your talents at "spinning" the situation (especially your first argument)
1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!
When it comes to force being used in Iraq, it is not a matter of people being "gung-ho" and wanting to go out to go kill some Iraqi's. It is a matter of what needs to be done (based on 12 years of inaction). Of course it is true when you state, "find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM!" But that's about as valid an argument against using force in Iraq as this is for using force "find five people who think Saddam should kill his own people, have rape commited on the relatives of Iraqi dissenters as blackmail, and hide current weapons/try to produce more for another 12 years.. YOU WON'T FIND THEM!" It takes quite a spin to change, doing something that needs to be done (though I think the current administration is going about it the wrong way), to "passionate about wanting to kill Iraqis." I geuss I should commend your "spinning" skills, they are better than the writers for the infamous Talk radio "nutters" and Fox News.
2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.
You don't speak for the majority, you speak for yourself and the friends you keep (unless you have quite a few million friends, but judging from the warm welcome you got at this last awards show, you don't have many friends
)
I do agree there are many pressing issues here that need to be looked at. They aren't something you can play off as problems caused by Bush, though. The stock market began its inevitable decline well before Bush became President, job losses can be directly linked to the recession, Social Security has been a joke for the past 20 years (it could have been "fixed" 25 years ago, now it is to late to do anything without screwing quite a few people) and if the only reason we are doing anything in Iraq is really just for the oil you won't have to worry about those high gas prices anymore.
And don't think I didn't catch the Q and I remark, witty.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time for some Orange Fanta, MMMmmmmm Fanta.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the rest, Mmmmmmmm Fanta
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.
It certainly isn't the whole world. Though many countries dislike him taking a stand when it comes to a difficult issue, instead of passing resolutions that accomplish nothing.
4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.
Won't the Iraqi's who welcome the US coming into their country to oust Saddam be glad to hear that the Pope thinks what is being done by the US is a "SIN". If you remove the names it sounds like "The head of the Catholic church (white, old, male) declares it to be bad to free Muslims from the control of an oppressive, genocidal dictator" That sounds like racism.
I believe our past 2 Presidents had both successfully dodged the draft, that is certainly nothing for them to be proud of, but the majority of Americans (that famous majority you claim to successfully represent in this letter) have deemed that as inconsequential.
5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!
I don't believe the draft is in effect anymore. Being in the military/army/navy/any other of the armed forces, is completely voluntary. Lets leave sending people who know almost nothing about what they're supposed to do out in the field (seeing as the people you suggest sending over there have no military experience) up to the UN, they've done a good job of that so far.
6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.
I don't get the dislike for France and it's inhabitants. Sure I like a good surrender joke as much as the next person, but the French seem like good enough people to me.
It's funny you should bring up ignorance backing one into a corner. I like how you bring up French involvement in the Revolutionary War, their art, and French inventions from the past as reasons for France being great, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. I imagine that along that same reasoning Greece is one of the most powerful countries in the world, Spain has the greatest navy, and China is more technologically advanced than any other country in the world. Use valid arguments to get your point across (especially when I agree with some of your points).
Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet!
But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!
Yours,
Michael Moore
The only thing of any argumentative worth in that pile of derisions and ad hominem is the word economy. And you use it without actually addressing any of the economic issues. I have to call that a cop-out to insult the President. You make this Independent voter sick, sick at your lack of respect, and sick that someone who thinks like you shares any beliefs in common with me
Yours truly,
Jonathan Martensen
Monday, March 24, 2003 (really freaking earlly in the morning 1:14 because I just read this)
My reply to Micheal Moore's letter
Dear Mr. Moore:
I do not think that "war" has been appropriate in handling the situation in Iraq. Bush has been foolhardy in his actions and insulting to many fellow nations that are normally in agreement with the US. But your letter is very disturbing to me. I don't mind that you dislike Bush (to put it mildly), and that you want to present an argument against war in Iraq. But your misguided attempts at argumentative logic make me ashamed to think we agree on anything about the "war" in Iraq.
Monday, March 17, 2003
A Letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush on the Eve of War
George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC
Dear Governor Bush:
So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:
This is what you believe and is your opinion, I have no argument with it, it is totally valid. Except for the Governor part /: and your "truths". I think you should work for O'Reilly on Fox News, with your talents at "spinning" the situation (especially your first argument)
1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!
When it comes to force being used in Iraq, it is not a matter of people being "gung-ho" and wanting to go out to go kill some Iraqi's. It is a matter of what needs to be done (based on 12 years of inaction). Of course it is true when you state, "find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM!" But that's about as valid an argument against using force in Iraq as this is for using force "find five people who think Saddam should kill his own people, have rape commited on the relatives of Iraqi dissenters as blackmail, and hide current weapons/try to produce more for another 12 years.. YOU WON'T FIND THEM!" It takes quite a spin to change, doing something that needs to be done (though I think the current administration is going about it the wrong way), to "passionate about wanting to kill Iraqis." I geuss I should commend your "spinning" skills, they are better than the writers for the infamous Talk radio "nutters" and Fox News.
2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.
You don't speak for the majority, you speak for yourself and the friends you keep (unless you have quite a few million friends, but judging from the warm welcome you got at this last awards show, you don't have many friends
)I do agree there are many pressing issues here that need to be looked at. They aren't something you can play off as problems caused by Bush, though. The stock market began its inevitable decline well before Bush became President, job losses can be directly linked to the recession, Social Security has been a joke for the past 20 years (it could have been "fixed" 25 years ago, now it is to late to do anything without screwing quite a few people) and if the only reason we are doing anything in Iraq is really just for the oil you won't have to worry about those high gas prices anymore.
And don't think I didn't catch the Q and I remark, witty.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time for some Orange Fanta, MMMmmmmm Fanta.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the rest, Mmmmmmmm Fanta
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.
It certainly isn't the whole world. Though many countries dislike him taking a stand when it comes to a difficult issue, instead of passing resolutions that accomplish nothing.
4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.
Won't the Iraqi's who welcome the US coming into their country to oust Saddam be glad to hear that the Pope thinks what is being done by the US is a "SIN". If you remove the names it sounds like "The head of the Catholic church (white, old, male) declares it to be bad to free Muslims from the control of an oppressive, genocidal dictator" That sounds like racism.
I believe our past 2 Presidents had both successfully dodged the draft, that is certainly nothing for them to be proud of, but the majority of Americans (that famous majority you claim to successfully represent in this letter) have deemed that as inconsequential.
5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!
I don't believe the draft is in effect anymore. Being in the military/army/navy/any other of the armed forces, is completely voluntary. Lets leave sending people who know almost nothing about what they're supposed to do out in the field (seeing as the people you suggest sending over there have no military experience) up to the UN, they've done a good job of that so far.
6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.
I don't get the dislike for France and it's inhabitants. Sure I like a good surrender joke as much as the next person, but the French seem like good enough people to me.
It's funny you should bring up ignorance backing one into a corner. I like how you bring up French involvement in the Revolutionary War, their art, and French inventions from the past as reasons for France being great, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. I imagine that along that same reasoning Greece is one of the most powerful countries in the world, Spain has the greatest navy, and China is more technologically advanced than any other country in the world. Use valid arguments to get your point across (especially when I agree with some of your points).
Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet!
But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!
Yours,
Michael Moore
The only thing of any argumentative worth in that pile of derisions and ad hominem is the word economy. And you use it without actually addressing any of the economic issues. I have to call that a cop-out to insult the President. You make this Independent voter sick, sick at your lack of respect, and sick that someone who thinks like you shares any beliefs in common with me
Yours truly,
Jonathan Martensen
-
Cardinal.jpg
- Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:57 am
- Location: Netherlands
I am glad I read all that, it was a well thought out response, I liked it better than Moore's letter itself. I think what Michael Moore is doing is good thing but I feel he has a long way to go. Better people to look to are Noam Chomsky and Gore Vidal who give a more controlled and logical breakdown of how they are feeling about this situation rather than the emotional outburst portrayed in this letter.
"I wish I did more drugs,
I wish I slept with more girls,
I wish you'd all go and get fucked."
Jock Cheese
I wish I slept with more girls,
I wish you'd all go and get fucked."
Jock Cheese
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gadoo
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 4:04 am
- Location: LA
- Contact:
here's the speech for those who missed it
Michael Moore: Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to — they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.
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Dannywilson
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 5:36 am
- Location: In love with Dr. Girlfriend
Finally a relavent post that just didn't go "YEAH MICHEAL MOORE IS TEH ROXORS!!!!11eleven!!". You came up with well thought out replies and holistic thinking bases for your words. Good job Jon.
"in the morning when i have wood..i like to walk around my house and bump random shit with it.... " -Random comment on grouphug.us
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Eilleen
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:23 pm
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blackout_sehs
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:05 pm
- Location: Macon GA
Liberals?OtakuOutpost wrote: He made a speech in front of a bunch of liberals and got boo'ed off the stage.
He is a liberal. He got booed off the stage by people who support the war, the people who were booing are called conservatives. Liberals are those who do not support Bush and his actions. Watch MSNBC and you will get your fill of liberal news. Watch FoxNews and you can get real news.-
OtakuOutpost
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:03 pm
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Uh, he was in hollywood for god sakes. Home of the rich and infamous? Land of the public liberal activists? That crowd was about 80% liberal. Getting boo'ed there is pretty remarkable.blackout_sehs wrote:
Liberals?
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