Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines

[the Black Monarch]

There is nothing preventing the T3 timeline from occurring that wouldn't also prevent the first two timelines from occurring.

[Arigatomina]

Reading through this reminds me of the star trek debates. The indepth analysis of these movies is frightening. Thanks to this trauma, I may never watch a Terminator movie again.

[LP Mixman]

I liked it, but it didnt compare to T2. The only thing i didnt like was how the terminator (arnold) acted more robotic, where as in T2 he was more Human like.

[OmniStrata]

Finally those idiots did something write...

Geez, you'd think Skynet was so stupid as to send nothing but male Terminators...

FUCKIN' FINALLY we need a sexy hottie kickin' the shit outta things. It's funny how she "develops" on command... LOL

Still, as a whole, this "timeline" thing you people are complaining about is both true and false...

Remember, with each defeat and passing of information, the timeline is changed to an extent. By simply sending a T-101 back, the timeline was already screwed over... That and that John Conner's dad was already "off time" is kinda weird so who cares?

Still, John Conner himself was literally Shinji Ikari for the first 1/2 of the movie... /me salute's WuWu

[Toecutter]

To OmniStrata:

Look, the thing is the ENTIRE future development as according to the timeline T3 follows is described by the T-800 (Arnold) in T2. Skynet is developed as a supercomputer by Cyberdyne Systems. The "automated defense network" is the nervous system connecting Skynet in Los Angeles, to the rest of the U.S. military hardware around the world.

Skynet's development in T3 doesn't follow the requirements of the timeline. Why would the T-800, and T-1000 be loaded up with a bunch of false information given by Skynet, which is the key to stopping John Connor from leading the resistance?

Basically, T3 was a professionally-done fanfiction, with too many plotholes. The "T-101"'s behavior did not match the T-800 of the first two films. Even when acting more human in T2, the eye-movements, stoic look, and predatory behavior were maintained for the second film. However, in the third film, the T-101 is too strong (the original endoskeleton could never survive crashing through a building on a crane with that much force), and loses it's stoic behavior, for an over-dramatic, Charleton Heston style (that doesn't work too well for a machine).

For example, even when the T-800 is sad that he will have to self-terminate and leave John to protect him from Judgement Day (the line: "I know now why you cry, but it's something I can never do.), the T-800 still is stoic, and does the predatory scanning with his eyes.

[Lyrs]

*reads*

/end

[hitmanyr2k]

To OmniStrata:

Basically, T3 was a professionally-done fanfiction, with too many plotholes. The "T-101"'s behavior did not match the T-800 of the first two films. Even when acting more human in T2, the eye-movements, stoic look, and predatory behavior were maintained for the second film. However, in the third film, the T-101 is too strong (the original endoskeleton could never survive crashing through a building on a crane with that much force), and loses it's stoic behavior, for an over-dramatic, Charleton Heston style (that doesn't work too well for a machine).

For example, even when the T-800 is sad that he will have to self-terminate and leave John to protect him from Judgement Day (the line: "I know now why you cry, but it's something I can never do.), the T-800 still is stoic, and does the predatory scanning with his eyes.

I guess you don't realize that Arnold is not a T-800 in T3. He's an improved model (T-850) so Arnold is not the same Terminator from T2 and should act a little different and perhaps the T-850's endoskeleton is stronger and can survive heavier damage. Obviously Skynet did upgrades on all it's Terminators in the future to help them in combat.

[the Black Monarch]

Look, the thing is the ENTIRE future development as according to the timeline T3 follows is described by the T-800 (Arnold) in T2. Skynet is developed as a supercomputer by Cyberdyne Systems. The "automated defense network" is the nervous system connecting Skynet in Los Angeles, to the rest of the U.S. military hardware around the world.

Skynet's development in T3 doesn't follow the requirements of the timeline. Why would the T-800, and T-1000 be loaded up with a bunch of false information given by Skynet, which is the key to stopping John Connor from leading the resistance?

It makes more sense than the alternate ending for T2, wherein Judgement Day never happens and therefore no Terminators should have been able to go back in time.

Basically, T3 was a professionally-done fanfiction.

Actually, you're partially right. It seems to have been based on a book that followed a somewhat similar concept: Skynet is back on track, female terminator gets sent back through time, etc. Inever read the book so I don't know how close it is to the movie... but yeah.

The "T-101"'s behavior did not match the T-800 of the first two films. Even when acting more human in T2, the eye-movements, stoic look, and predatory behavior were maintained for the second film. However, in the third film, the T-101 is too strong (the original endoskeleton could never survive crashing through a building on a crane with that much force), and loses it's stoic behavior, for an over-dramatic, Charleton Heston style (that doesn't work too well for a machine).

WTF are you talking about? Arnold was just as stoic in the third movie as the first two.

[Toecutter]

To the Black Monarch:

Watch Arnold's and Robert Patrick's mannerisms closely in "The Terminator", then compare them to "T2", and finally, "T3". You'll notice Arnold as the T-800 in "The Terminator", and Robert Patrick as the T-1000 in "T2" do an eye/head scanning about their environment, in which the eyes move first, and the head tracks their movement. The new T-X in "T3" has it down, but Arnold as the T-101 is too concerned with melodrama (the whole "I am a machine!" sequence is nonsense). Also, the comedic sequences of the "T-101" stealing everything from the gas station, or taking the clothes from the male stripper wouldn't happen that way. For the strip club sequence, the T-800 would easily throw the bouncer halfway across the street, walk in, locate the stripper, demand his clothes, and then break his hand AND pin him kneeling on the ground using his disabled right arm.

The "T-101" wouldn't talk to the hand, as he did in the film. If you remember the biker bar sequence in "T2", the biker says "You forgot to say please.", and burns Arnold's chest with a cigar. Arnold doesn't say please. He merely breaks the guy's fingers, pins him to the ground, as described before, and disables anyone who tries to get in his way. You also can't forget the T-800 in "The Terminator" punches one of the three gang members, impaling him with his right arm, when they try to pull knives on him.

Also, how does the "T-101" know that he must first check to see if the keys to a vehicle are hidden above the sun visor? That's something John Connor teaches the other T-800 in "T2". The terminators just punch through the steering column, rip the plastic off, and hot-wire the vehicle they're stealing. It's all about efficient, brute force with them.

It makes more sense than the alternate ending for T2, wherein Judgement Day never happens and therefore no Terminators should have been able to go back in time.

To quote Reese from the first film: "One possible future, from your point of view... I don't know tech stuff!"

Did anyone even bother to look at the timeline diagram I put up on the web? Did anyone even read the pages of explaination about the space-time continuum, alternate dimensions, etc? I have gone through this bullshit every single reply I have posted. Here it is again if you didn't bother before:

http://members.dsl-only.net/~bullard/ch ... nator.html

The fact is, if "Skynet" took over according to the new "T3" timeline, it wouldn't really be Skynet. Skynet was an automated defense network passed by Congress, and developed by Cyberdyne Systems. This new "Skynet" was a government-only run program, and has no connection to the neuro-processor developed by Dyson from the first two films (check the special edition "The Terminator" on DVD, and you can see one of the deleted scenes that covers the existence of the chip afterwards).

The entire alternate future described by Reese and the two T-800s, and known by the T-1000 all follow the original concept, as incorporated into the first two films.

Also, note how in "The Terminator", and "T2", the T-800 is a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101. Reese explains the different models of the infiltrators to Sarah during the first car chase:

"The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy, but these are new: they look human. Sweat, bad breath, everything; very hard to spot. I had to wait for him to move on you before I could zero him!".

The endoskeleton is the hyperalloy combat chassis and neuro-processor system, while the model of infiltration unit (600 series, 800 series, etc) is the method of concealment (note the T-1000 is the advanced prototype, which uses a completely new method of concealment, blending into the human population far more effectively).

I guess you don't realize that Arnold is not a T-800 in T3. He's an improved model (T-850) so Arnold is not the same Terminator from T2 and should act a little different and perhaps the T-850's endoskeleton is stronger and can survive heavier damage. Obviously Skynet did upgrades on all it's Terminators in the future to help them in combat.

The "T-101" model description used in "T3" is something written down by an uninformed screenwriter, who didn't bother to get the proper information from Cameron, Winston, or Hurd. Instead, he probably watched the second film one or two times, got the terminology mixed up, and just threw it in anyway. For example, the T-X, if it's a newly developed terminator, based off of the CS-101 endoskeleton, while also incorporating the T-1000 mimetic polyalloy, and some bizarre nano-technology that could never work, it would be designated the T-1200. The "X" designation is something a crappy screenwriter or producer would throw in to wow the audience. Notice how humans always use X, or 2000/3000 to a designation to make it sound cool (ex: "Death Race 2000", Gruntmaster 6000, "Knight Rider 2000: The Motion Picture", Racer X, "X-Men").

Still, John Conner himself was literally Shinji Ikari for the first 1/2 of the movie... /me salute's WuWu

Yeah, that's really out of character for John Connor. If you watch "T2", throughout the entire film, he's already starting to take on the role of military leader. In the deleted sequence (which can be viewed in "T2: The Ultimate Edition", and later releases on DVD) when Sarah and John remove the neuro-processor from the T-800 in the garage, Sarah wants to destroy the chip. However, John tells her that they need him, and "If I'm supposed to be this great military leader, maybe you should start listening to my leadership ideas once in a while, because if my own mother won't, why should anyone else?"

John saw the second T-800 terminated at the end of "T2". He should easily have realized the difference between that model, and the "T-101". He even asks the "T-101" in their first encounter in "T3", "Are you here to kill me?", obviously realizing this is a different model sent back through time. But, through the rest of the film, Nick Stahl acts as though it's the same one from "T2", and asks "What, no 'Hasta la vista, baby?'. Do I have to re-teach you everything?".

In conclusion, finally, for the last time, "T3" is nothing more than an eye-candy fanfiction, which completely screws over the whole message of "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."[/url]

[Toecutter]

I forgot something:

The whole T-850 concept is dead wrong! The chassis would not be any more beefed up, or heavier (kinda funny how a 10 year old John Connor can help the T-800 up with very little effort at the end of "T2", but two firefighters can't even shift the T-101's weight in "T3"), because it's the same CS-101 hyperalloy endoskeleton! The T-1000 was the first derivation from the CS-101 platform since the creation of the infiltrators.

The system power cells in the first terminator films never blew up when they were disengaged, and if they had, they would've easily wiped out the endoskeleton, seeing as how a homemade nitroglycerine pipe bomb placed in the pelvis can blow the chassis into pieces, or how the T-1000 can skewer the chassis with a simple steel rod right through the power cell (without blowing it up!).

The "T-101" that was sent back through time was revived by John Connor in 2029 in order to replace the only father figure he ever knew, while John was still acting like Shinji. Of course, for some bizarre reason, John didn't take the time to reprogram the "T-101" while in cold-storage, like he did to the previous model he sent back to 1995, which eventually led to his death.

In "T3", the new director and producers were trying to make John look like a fucking pansy, and hint that his wife (that bitchy Katherine Brewster) was really in charge.