What's your fav FF game and why? + my rant...

Moonlight Soldier · Post by **Moonlight Soldier** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:50 pm

their goal has been "prettiness" and style over substance.

I agree

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:51 pm

Jace Tsunami wrote: that's all bull shit and you know it.

You're stretching your own truths and opinions.

If I were to revise your post, I'd simply remove the word "EVER"

How about this modification?

dwchang wrote:It's not that hard, I just named the top 3 RPGs on many avid RPGer's list.

You can find Lunar 2 for fairly cheap, but Suikoden II and Xenogears...good luck. I hear they go on eBay for like 80 bucks now. But seriously, you should try and find them. They all blew me away. Sure they don't have fancy 3-D cinematics, but they have 10x the story/character/depth of any Final Fantasy ever made (to me)

You can't deny that almost every Final Fantasy is formulaic and lately their goal has been "prettiness" and style over substance.

These games are good old RPGs and rely on the things that define what the genre is.

Happy?

Yeah forgot about Chrono Trigger. Too bad both them and the FFVI team are both gone. That is the main reason the games have been getting progressively worse (IMO). Those games that you love had development teams and the majority of them have left.

You forgot "Symphony of the Night" for action RPGs. I haven't played Harmony of Dissonance, but I hear they're very similar.

Jace Tsunami · Post by **Jace Tsunami** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:56 pm

I enjoyed symphony of the night when it came out, but it's just not that extensive of a game, and not a whole lot you can do, compared to the GBA games. As it was a favorite it's not so much anymore, it just can't compare to the new school stuff.

And I agree with you on ost of your FF views, but I think Final fantasy III was an amazing game. And IMO that game goes against everything you said. It's very extensive and in depth, and "pretty" to boot.

Milliardo · Post by **Milliardo** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:40 pm

I really enjoyed Tales of Phantasia, which is an action RPG.
Chrono Trigger is one of my all time favs. 7th Saga wasn't that bad either, and was a little different than most rpgs.

I don't really know why people (dwchang for example) think that Final Fantasy games lack story/character depth. Yeah, there is the eye candy element to them, and they may lack some originallity in areas, but I still think there is a significant amount of character depth, especially in FF X.
FF X was like playing an rpg while watching an anime (a good one). It can't get much better than that.

Jace Tsunami · Post by **Jace Tsunami** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:42 pm

or it's like playing an rpg while watching an anime, minus the playing an rpg.

That game is like, not an rpg.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:34 pm

Jace Tsunami wrote:I enjoyed symphony of the night when it came out, but it's just not that extensive of a game, and not a whole lot you can do, compared to the GBA games. As it was a favorite it's not so much anymore, it just can't compare to the new school stuff.

And I agree with you on ost of your FF views, but I think Final fantasy III was an amazing game. And IMO that game goes against everything you said. It's very extensive and in depth, and "pretty" to boot.

IC, well I haven't played any of the more recent Castlevanias and thus like Symphony right now

As for VI/III, I did say it was good and my favorite right? Also said it *wasn't* just mildly over-average/mediocre right?

At the same time, it does have it's fair share a problems, but not anything that made me hate it.

Milliardo wrote:I don't really know why people (dwchang for example) think that Final Fantasy games lack story/character depth. Yeah, there is the eye candy element to them, and they may lack some originallity in areas, but I still think there is a significant amount of character depth, especially in FF X.
FF X was like playing an rpg while watching an anime (a good one). It can't get much better than that.

Lack of story and character? This is easy. As I said earlier, almost every Final Fantasy after the half-way point has NO more development and thus the lack of both.

Examples?

-Final Fantasy VI - after Kefka takes over the world, is there anymore real character development or more importantly, added to the story? The Story is the same, Kefka is in his castle and you need to go kill him. This is set-up at the halfway point and doesn't change. You go find your characters and he's STILL there, doing nothing to the party or interacting. This goes on for like 10 - 15 hours.

As for characters, I will agree that the side-stories DO exist (namely Locke's), but it's still nothing compared to those listed earlier by me. Regardless, easily my favorite Final Fantasy.

-Final Fantasy VII - same applies. After Sephiroth summons the meteor, does anything really happen in the story? Think about it...

-Final Fantasy VIII - let's see, I hate this game so this is gonna be easy. Let's see:

A) a villain you don't even know about until the VERY end and has NO interaction with the characters and thus you dont' really care about beating them.

B) a stupid way to give the character's "depth". "We were all kids and we lost our memories b/c of the Guardian Forces." Thus ends our 5 minutes spent on the characters.

C) anyone who says Rinoa and Squall's relationship grew is on crack (IMO). He hates her the entire game, says so and then magically in space he falls in love with her? Oh yes, I saw this developing and blossoming like a true beautiful relationship. So scratch that for development

D) Look at A - C. Mainly A and C.

-Final Fantasy IX - Hmmm...I can't seem to recall much of this which makes me think it wasn't that memorable. IIRC there is some villain at the end that you dont' even know who he is or why he is the last boss (that skull thingy).

I can't remember everything, but I do remember a lot of moving around that was stupid and useless throughout the game and going to villages and things that seemed pointless and did nothing to add to the story other than make the player go through another dungeon.

Oh and can anyone really tell me anything about half of those characters? The Bounty Hunter had no past or anyting interesting about him. Eiko was just a cute little girl. That white eating thing was just stupid. The dragoon chick had a LITTLE in that her home was destroyed. Other than Zidane and Garnett, did anyone really have any development?

I will admit though that Kuja was the closest thing to Kefka (I.e. a villain who actually does something to the heros...given Sephiroth was good as well).

-Final Fantasy X - I will be the first to admit that this (and almost all the ones listed) isn't a bad game. I said earlier that they all are *above average* yes? That still means good? My main point is that they are all over-rated IMO (namely FF fanboys who think they're the best RPGs ever made, say the newest one is the best one (i.e. keep changing their opinions) and haven't even played anything non-Square to really compare).

I got de-railed, but anyway...yeah a good game and now that I think about it did develop at a decent race, but again the games I listed earlier are MUCH better IMO.

Seriously, play them and then we can debate

BTW does anyone notice a pattern with Final Fantasies not developing after the half-way point? I sure do. Also notice a pattern with most of the characters being cut-outs from the previous one and some having almost no development?

Again, I can't emphasize enough that I *do* enjoy Final Fantasies. They *are* above average games. They even do a *decent* job on developing the characters (i.e. something over nothing, which an *average* RPG is like). You gotta realize that average isn't that good.

HOWEVER, I am trying to prove a point that they *are* flawed and people are too fanboy-ish to realize that they're not "OMGWTF GREATEST GAME EVAR MADE!!!!1111ONE111!!!" like most ppl are. Given, it's a matter of opinion and thus, this is mine and I have plenty of points to back it up.

J-0080 · Post by **J-0080** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:14 pm

Hey,

I pretty much completely agree with all the great games mentioned so far;

Lunar I and II, these games have my favorite charcters and cutscenes of all time(come to think of it I still haven't open those popups in the Omake box).

Suikoden I and II, these games were also great, I really liked the tactical battles(moreso in 2 than 1).

Xenogears, I never have finished this, never really could get into all that much.

Chronotrigger, man I really liked this, I've replayed it so many times with the + games chronos up to level 99.

Star Ocean, I really liked the alternate main character games, though not much different its nice to see things from diffrent perspectives (only real bad thing about this was the voices

)

And some that weren't mentioned,

Secret of Mana, well there wasen't much character development but the gameplay and story really blew me away.

Secret of Evermore, while not quite as great this game was still lotsa fun, plus your other char is your faithful dog.

Harvest Moon, what can is say virtual farming is actually rather fun

The FF game I would have to pick as my fave would be FFIII, with the worst being FF Legends 2 for gameboy.

And the worst RPG I have yet to play would undoubtedly be have to be The Seventh Saga, pretty much just bad everything.

J-0080.

kearlywi · Post by **kearlywi** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:16 pm

Good lord, am I the only person here who loves FF and non-FF games?

I have to say that plot development tends to drop a lot in the 2nd half of everything, I've seen films that were all developement and no payoff (i.e. stigmata), and they were among the worst I have ever seen; theres a time to load the gun and theres a time to shoot it.

Overall I would say some of you are being a little harsh on the final fantasy series; being top dog means higher expectations and louder critics. It is incredibly difficult to establish a series of repeated successes in the rpg world. Without adding any bias (or as little as I can 8) ), I'm going to list some rpg series. Consider for yourself which games are awesome or not (and I think you'll get my point).

Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire II
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter

Suikoden
Suikoden II
Suikoden III

Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross

Grandia
Grandia II
Grandia (III; i forget the exact title)

Xenogears
Xenosaga

Many of you may find the early to mid installments the most appealing. And you should notice that as a series goes on, its less and less likely to keep that same level of quality.

Now consider Final Fantasy (I wont write it out, use your imagination

): and you can understand why there are so many lofty criticisms for the series. It should at least be commended that it is still as good as it is for being on its 11th installment.

I would like to add that I think character development is good, which is why Lunar and Lunar2 as well as Suikoden2, Chrono Trigger, and BOF II are among my all time favorite games of any series or genre. (I like CT more than any FF).

Props to anyone who was ventured outside Square-Enix. Theres good stuff to be found.

Now get back to talking about Final Fantasy, thats what this forum is for!

Jace Tsunami · Post by **Jace Tsunami** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:16 pm

play new game plus again. You can get Crono to **

Just like I'm sure most of his stats say.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:31 pm

kearlywi wrote:Good lord, am I the only person here who loves FF and non-FF games?

No, I stated I liked them, but don't love them like "OMGWTF!!1111ONE!"

kearlywi wrote:I have to say that plot development tends to drop a lot in the 2nd half of everything, I've seen films that were all developement and no payoff (i.e. stigmata), and they were among the worst I have ever seen; theres a time to load the gun and theres a time to shoot it.
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Overall I would say some of you are being a little harsh on the final fantasy series; being top dog means higher expectations and louder critics. It is incredibly difficult to establish a series of repeated successes in the rpg world.

Now consider Final Fantasy (I wont write it out, use your imagination ): and you can understand why there are so many lofty criticisms for the series. It should at least be commended that it is still as good as it is for being on its 11th installment.

I would like to add that I think character development is good, which is why Lunar and Lunar2 as well as Suikoden2, Chrono Trigger, and BOF II are among my all time favorite games of any series or genre. (I like CT more than any FF).

Props to anyone who was ventured outside Square-Enix. Theres good stuff to be found.

Now get back to talking about Final Fantasy, thats what this forum is for!

Again, I repeat that they aren't bad games, but I really dislike blind fanboy-ism for something when people haven't ventured outside the realm.

I mean my criticism isn't harsh or based on higher expectations. These are all legitimate gripes with the series. I don't have high expectations for FF games because the series hasn't been able to surpass it's 6th installment and it's tried 5 times now.

High expectations implies that they continually surpass themselves and thus the need to have higher expectations. That is obviously not the case.

I will commend that they've done a good job to establish the market and have made mostly good games, but at the same time, I wont' go about saying theyr'e the best and can't make a shitty game. I might also add, again, that the development teams for the majority of the games mentioned are with other companies right now (which explains the decline in quality).

However, I do commend you and J-0080 since it looks like you guys have played the cream of the crop. I'm also glad you're not blind and realize that they're games do have flaws in them (and some times big flaws...*cough* 8 *cough*)