Prepare to fight!
- jonmartensen
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:50 pm
- Location: Gimmickville USA
You spaz, it was in way of topic originally, then it was moved to generall off topic. There is a little sticky on it that say "moved" in the Way off topic area, that's probablly why you think they moved it to way off topic.
And yes, your spamtastic pictures are way off topic material. If you continue to post anti-war/anti-america (or conversly if someone starts posting pro-war/pro-america) pictures I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they split off the last part of this otherwise civilly discussed topic, and put it in way off topic (but I'm sure only two posts don't warrant it, it's only if there are more).
And yes, your spamtastic pictures are way off topic material. If you continue to post anti-war/anti-america (or conversly if someone starts posting pro-war/pro-america) pictures I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they split off the last part of this otherwise civilly discussed topic, and put it in way off topic (but I'm sure only two posts don't warrant it, it's only if there are more).
- Wykith
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:39 pm
Nope...it wasn't moved, it was moved back. Pay attention.
I knew some poor ignorant bastard (other than Mr. Oni) Would call those pictures "anti-american" I just never thought it would be you.
Here,
For those of you who still read from time to time.
The Boogeyman of Anti-Americanism
Matthew Riemer, YellowTimes.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The term "anti-Americanism," like its cousin "anti-Semitism," has become the new mantra of an apologetic intelligentsia class: It's used ritually to describe anyone or anything that does not obediently fawn at the feet of American exceptionalism. The most convenient and negative result of the term's preponderance is its intentional blurring of the lines between ethnic and political criticism.
For example, to criticize American foreign policy is to be "anti-American." And in the case of Americans themselves, to be "self-loathing" as well. But what does the term "American" really mean when used in this manner? Everything remotely "American"? When people gather in distant countries to demonstrate for peace or in support of their own nation's sovereignty, which is incidentally being challenged by a hegemonic United States, it is "anti-Americanism" at work -- not people assembling of their own free will to address specific grievances.
One can see the benefit of this usage as highly specific, political criticisms and observations are misconstrued and transformed into broad and sweeping, social, ethnic, and cultural statements.
So now to criticize the actions of elite politicians in Washington is to criticize the American people and their way of life. If you have a problem with the U.S.' policy in the Middle East, you must hate baseball and apple pie. If you don't support war with Iraq, you must not "appreciate your freedom." If you say the U.S. has no right to threaten non-nuclear countries with pre-emptive nuclear war, then you must be jealous of America's greatness. The keepers of the status quo and enshriners of America as the holier-than-thou empire are determined to have all such criticism deflected in this manner.
South Korea is an illustrative example that comes to mind. Following an incident that involved the killing of two young South Korean girls by a U.S. military jeep being driven by military personnel stationed in South Korea, the South was accused of "anti-Americanism" for expressing displeasure with the U.S.' handling of the incident.
Many a candlelight vigil and protest have been since held in the name of the two girls and the misrepresentation of the affair continues. Radios can be heard blurting out "Massive anti-American demonstrations in South Korea today." Newsprint headlines shout the same.
Such news, of an extreme soundbite nature, can be used to sensationalize the most mundane event. The use of headlines in this way adds to the alarmist air pervading much of corporate media today. Whether it's Fox News with their never ending scrolling bar on the bottom of the screen displaying that day's terror warning alert system color or sensationalist claims of rampant "anti-Americanism," the media seems intent on frightening the American public as frequently as possible. Security has become the buzzword for a desperately mis-educated American public eager to cling to anything that makes them feel more secure -- including prettified illusions of what's going on in the world perpetuated by their local press.
Cannot any criticism of the United States ever be accepted, or even faced, by the accused and those who apologize for them? The sentiment is clear in the American media: The South Korean "protesters" are young, disaffected, and jealous of the U.S.' role in the world. They have no legitimate gripe. No one middle-aged or "respected" could ever be criticizing the U.S. for anything of substance.
This is one of the U.S.' worst attributes on the global social stage and one of the greatest causes of the impression of Americans as arrogant and condescending: a complete lack of respect for others' opinions and the systematic marginalization, delegitimation, and blackballing of those opinions.
Following the attacks of September 11th, crowds gathered to publicly and collectively mourn the dead and listen to fiery speeches about American pride and retribution. Were these events described as "anti-Arab" or "anti-Muslim"? Surely not.
Americans, and, more vitally, the U.S. government, must learn to respect and pay heed to what other nations and cultures attempt to articulate through public demonstration.
[Matthew Riemer has written for years about a myriad of topics, such as: philosophy, religion, psychology, culture, and politics. He studied Russian language and culture for five years and traveled in the former Soviet Union in 1990. In the midst of a larger autobiographical/cultural work, Matthew is the Director of Operations at YellowTimes.org. He lives in the United States.]
I knew some poor ignorant bastard (other than Mr. Oni) Would call those pictures "anti-american" I just never thought it would be you.
Here,
For those of you who still read from time to time.
The Boogeyman of Anti-Americanism
Matthew Riemer, YellowTimes.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The term "anti-Americanism," like its cousin "anti-Semitism," has become the new mantra of an apologetic intelligentsia class: It's used ritually to describe anyone or anything that does not obediently fawn at the feet of American exceptionalism. The most convenient and negative result of the term's preponderance is its intentional blurring of the lines between ethnic and political criticism.
For example, to criticize American foreign policy is to be "anti-American." And in the case of Americans themselves, to be "self-loathing" as well. But what does the term "American" really mean when used in this manner? Everything remotely "American"? When people gather in distant countries to demonstrate for peace or in support of their own nation's sovereignty, which is incidentally being challenged by a hegemonic United States, it is "anti-Americanism" at work -- not people assembling of their own free will to address specific grievances.
One can see the benefit of this usage as highly specific, political criticisms and observations are misconstrued and transformed into broad and sweeping, social, ethnic, and cultural statements.
So now to criticize the actions of elite politicians in Washington is to criticize the American people and their way of life. If you have a problem with the U.S.' policy in the Middle East, you must hate baseball and apple pie. If you don't support war with Iraq, you must not "appreciate your freedom." If you say the U.S. has no right to threaten non-nuclear countries with pre-emptive nuclear war, then you must be jealous of America's greatness. The keepers of the status quo and enshriners of America as the holier-than-thou empire are determined to have all such criticism deflected in this manner.
South Korea is an illustrative example that comes to mind. Following an incident that involved the killing of two young South Korean girls by a U.S. military jeep being driven by military personnel stationed in South Korea, the South was accused of "anti-Americanism" for expressing displeasure with the U.S.' handling of the incident.
Many a candlelight vigil and protest have been since held in the name of the two girls and the misrepresentation of the affair continues. Radios can be heard blurting out "Massive anti-American demonstrations in South Korea today." Newsprint headlines shout the same.
Such news, of an extreme soundbite nature, can be used to sensationalize the most mundane event. The use of headlines in this way adds to the alarmist air pervading much of corporate media today. Whether it's Fox News with their never ending scrolling bar on the bottom of the screen displaying that day's terror warning alert system color or sensationalist claims of rampant "anti-Americanism," the media seems intent on frightening the American public as frequently as possible. Security has become the buzzword for a desperately mis-educated American public eager to cling to anything that makes them feel more secure -- including prettified illusions of what's going on in the world perpetuated by their local press.
Cannot any criticism of the United States ever be accepted, or even faced, by the accused and those who apologize for them? The sentiment is clear in the American media: The South Korean "protesters" are young, disaffected, and jealous of the U.S.' role in the world. They have no legitimate gripe. No one middle-aged or "respected" could ever be criticizing the U.S. for anything of substance.
This is one of the U.S.' worst attributes on the global social stage and one of the greatest causes of the impression of Americans as arrogant and condescending: a complete lack of respect for others' opinions and the systematic marginalization, delegitimation, and blackballing of those opinions.
Following the attacks of September 11th, crowds gathered to publicly and collectively mourn the dead and listen to fiery speeches about American pride and retribution. Were these events described as "anti-Arab" or "anti-Muslim"? Surely not.
Americans, and, more vitally, the U.S. government, must learn to respect and pay heed to what other nations and cultures attempt to articulate through public demonstration.
[Matthew Riemer has written for years about a myriad of topics, such as: philosophy, religion, psychology, culture, and politics. He studied Russian language and culture for five years and traveled in the former Soviet Union in 1990. In the midst of a larger autobiographical/cultural work, Matthew is the Director of Operations at YellowTimes.org. He lives in the United States.]
"And now you will shed tears of crimson."
"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
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"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
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- Wykith
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:39 pm
I AM NOT anti-american. I am against our government and against blind patriotism. I have every right in the world to be as well. So you can take your "like it or leave it" shit and cram it three feet up your ass!!!
Holy shit WTF has gotten into me?............... ........maybe this thread really IS dangerous....
No seriously jon, they moved it and then moved it back. They've actually done it a few times now. I think the mods are having a dispute amongst themselves about where to put this.
Holy shit WTF has gotten into me?............... ........maybe this thread really IS dangerous....
No seriously jon, they moved it and then moved it back. They've actually done it a few times now. I think the mods are having a dispute amongst themselves about where to put this.
"And now you will shed tears of crimson."
"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
Your message has been entered successfully
"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
Your message has been entered successfully
- jonmartensen
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:50 pm
- Location: Gimmickville USA
Questioning the political proccess, or motivations for certain decisions of politicians is certainly not "anti-america/n". And in no way did I describe questioning political policies as anti-america/n.
I honestly don't think this is questioning politcal policies or specific people in governmental positions.
It is broadcasting a rather broad and generalized idea, that is not direct critisism and therfore warrents the broad statement anti-america/n. If it were to question directly any policy or idea held by a person/group of persons in our government then it would be protesting and trying to bring a point to light.
And this, while funny, is not exactlly what I would call a good form of critisism.
Insulting (rather than critisising) is not a very good way to get a point across, it's just humor.
I honestly don't think this is questioning politcal policies or specific people in governmental positions.
It is broadcasting a rather broad and generalized idea, that is not direct critisism and therfore warrents the broad statement anti-america/n. If it were to question directly any policy or idea held by a person/group of persons in our government then it would be protesting and trying to bring a point to light.
And this, while funny, is not exactlly what I would call a good form of critisism.
Insulting (rather than critisising) is not a very good way to get a point across, it's just humor.
There is no need for ad hominem, it's not something that should be needed in a conversation or discussion. You did a good job on finding some interesting information (that essay was well written), but as I stated before, the pictures are just spam in a discussion topic, there is no reason to get all huffy about that. (and it doesn't matter if they are promotting your view point or promotting someone elses)Wykith wrote:I knew some poor ignorant bastard (other than Mr. Oni) Would call those pictures "anti-american" I just never thought it would be you.
- Wykith
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:39 pm
Oh no, no, no....apologies for the misunderstanding....the pictures were meant as humorous spam..the article was a debating tool.
[MOD467: FYI, I moved it from WOT to OT where it was ORIGINALLY because it was strangely on-topic and I wanted to encourage this sort of thread (because it was on-topic, not necessarily because it was political). Since this was unusual (it usually goes the other way), I left a shadow thread in WOT. If you're going to argue with people, at least get your facts straight.]
[MOD467: FYI, I moved it from WOT to OT where it was ORIGINALLY because it was strangely on-topic and I wanted to encourage this sort of thread (because it was on-topic, not necessarily because it was political). Since this was unusual (it usually goes the other way), I left a shadow thread in WOT. If you're going to argue with people, at least get your facts straight.]
"And now you will shed tears of crimson."
"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
Your message has been entered successfully
"I don't have an attitude problem. I have an attitude. It's your problem."
Your message has been entered successfully
- Jace Tsunami
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 5:56 am
- Location: Los Angeles, Ca
- Contact:
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- Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:27 pm
- Location: It's more of a general area than a location
- Contact:
Man, Mroni, I like you and all, but stop making America look like stupid jerks. That's what Bush is, that's what Reagan was, and that's what a majority of the Republican party is. It seems that their job, whenever in office, is to make America look bad. But I'm sure that's merely by coincidence, they mostly only care about their own selfish agenda and so don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Bush will attack regardless of what the UN says, it's obvious from the amount of troops he's already sent.Mroni wrote:MistyCaldwell wrote:I agree. Here is a nice list of what the U.S. has been up to...unless we want foreign military occupation here, we shouldn't expect other countries to accept our bases on a permanent basis. I agree with sending supplies but not money...it's just been used too many times for weapons.
And one I just heard today, The U.S. is now training COlumbian troops. As if the 90,000 we just sent over wasn't enough.1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.
September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".
September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.
That shit dosent stand up under scrutiny. What did you cut and paste uncle milos crap. Also any thing we did to fight the commies was justified. Mr Onis list of things the U.S has been busy doing for the last 55 years.
1.Rebuilt Japan and Germany out of the goodness of our heart protecting both of them.
2.Held the line against the evil soviet empire who would surely have kept on rolling through europe if it hadn't had been for us.
3. Saved the south koreans from suffering the same fate as the north. The commies in the north are a joke thier time is up. Meantime south korea is one of the richest countries in asia.
4.Put a man on the moon
5.Invented the Pc
6.Helped the south vietnamese in a war against overwhelming odds fight off commies in the north we kicked major ass once the republicans got in office but public oppinion and misinformation by leftist radical doo doo heads made us pull out. Once we pulled out the vastly out numbered south vietnamese met thier fate. Another new ally for the commies was born may they rot in hell.
7.Did nothing new to iran by helping the shah get into power considering the alternatives were religous wackos. Under the shah Iran enjoyed greater freedom (women were not required to wear Viels). The shah was our closest freind over there and look what his replacement turned out to be.
8.Put economic pressure on cuba for years now that thier commies allys have pulled out and left them alone cuba is the biggest shit hole in the world.
9.Saved Granada
10. Got the big drug dealer out of panama
11. Put kadaffi in his place.
12.Scared the soviet union so that it fell apart.
13. The country of kuwait from the evil saddam
In the meantime the french have been ungrateful bastards god I hate the French.
Mr Oni
I don't much care for the Democratic party either, bunch of...well...nothing. Really, they aren't anything except Republicans without the whole "personal opinion" thing. They are a little more green, but only to separate themselves from the Republicans.
Both are mostly rich white guys who couldn't care less about the people who voted for them. They only really care about the people who might vote for them.
If I had my way, the party system would be abolished. It makes more sense if you really think about it.
And to everyone; don't act like you know it all, because no one does.
This place is such a shit-hole.
- Jace Tsunami
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 5:56 am
- Location: Los Angeles, Ca
- Contact:
SHUT UP, SHUT UP!!!!
We already had all these arguments and discussions. Besides, Mr. Oni is praising our government, he was mentioning how flawless it is and how much faith he has in bush, he never said they were a bunch of stupid jerks. Get your story right, read the whole thread and get your jolys from it, AND STOP POSTING CRAP THAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.
Let the damn thread die
We already had all these arguments and discussions. Besides, Mr. Oni is praising our government, he was mentioning how flawless it is and how much faith he has in bush, he never said they were a bunch of stupid jerks. Get your story right, read the whole thread and get your jolys from it, AND STOP POSTING CRAP THAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.
Let the damn thread die
-
- Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:27 pm
- Location: It's more of a general area than a location
- Contact:
Am I the next dumbass?Jace Tsunami wrote:hey Wykith, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
you're the only one talking, and if you continue to do so you're keeping the thread alive. If you do that, the next dumbass is going to see it and start a whole new page of responces with out reading jack shit that EVERYONE else has posted before.
Just let it die.
This place is such a shit-hole.
- jonmartensen
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:50 pm
- Location: Gimmickville USA