Well said, Vancore.
I myself think this is worthy of seeing, no matter how much of a "hardcore terminator fan" you may proclaim to be. There will always be pessimistic fuckheads to make it seem worse than it is, but it's hardly true. Toecutter just needs to get off his vibrator for awhile and let his ass heal up a bit, I do believe it's a little sore.
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
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HungryCrackPot
- Spammer Time
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:58 am
i have not seen it, but by the details my brother an myself had, and watching terminator 1 and 2 a million times, we debated. I was on the side of "t3 should have never happened" while he was "it could've, but their facts are sorely fucked up".What we cam down to was that T3 COULD have happened, as the war was going to occur (as stated in T1), but the dates were sorely mistaken. If I RECALL, Judgement Day was supposed to be in 1997. With Dyson killed, people would still eventually pick up on the technology (cuz they did in T1), but not nearly as fast. Still, this would have placed J.D. much later. Arnolds character himself displays far too much human emotion and is a complete rip off of what a terminator was supposed to act like. In T2, one of the main themes was that a terminator could not show feelings for someone and only served their purpose. In T3, this is not nearly as present, and is only a shadow of what it should be.
I am tired, and dont know why i am explaining this, so i shall stop
I am tired, and dont know why i am explaining this, so i shall stop
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TheRealNeoHentaiMaster
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:39 am
- Location: Southern California
OK, im sorry, but you missed the whole point of the movie. Its irrelevent how the time lines match up and if it was still possible for skynet to take over after T2 because the whole point of T3 was that fate could not be changed. No matter how you tried to prevent judgement day, it would still find a way a happen, and John Connor would still end up leading the ressistance. After T2, because Cyberdine was destroyed, Judgement day was pushed back. Time was altered, but the fate that skynet would some day take over couldnt be. This is the real reason why the first two terminators actually failed. John Connor could not be killed because it was fate that he was to grow up and lead the ressistance. Its also the same reason Judgement day could not be stopped, it was simply fate, and all the important factors would never change. All through the movie, John is trying to stop fate so to speak, he doesnt accept that Judgement day is inevitable and tries hopelessly to stop it, until finally at the very end of the movie, he finally realizes he must, for lack of a less cliche phrase "accept his destiny" Judgement day happens, and he takes his first steps to becoming the leader of the ressistance.Toecutter wrote:The first two films made more sense with the timeline than this new one. Kyle Reese being John's father works out reasonably well, at least a whole lot better than one of John's children going back through time, and humping Sarah Connor.
As for the creation of Skynet, it was Miles Bennet Dyson of Cyberdyne Systems' special projects division which invented the neuro-processor, based on the first T-800's surviving chip. Stealth bombers are upgraded with fully automated neuro-processors, giving them a flawless service record. Eventually, the government realizes how effective an automated "learning computer" would run the American defense network. So, the Skynet Bill goes through Congress.
Skynet becomes self aware, and scares the shit out of the military, so they decide to eliminate Skynet's control. In retaliation, Skynet launches America's ICBMs against Russia, so the Russians will strike Skynet's enemies here.
John Connor leads the resistance through a bloody war of attrition, until 2029, when the resistance wins, and conquers Skynet's main base of operations in Los Angeles. In a last-ditch effort, Skynet sends two Terminators back through time to kill John Connor before he can form the resistance (one to kill Sarah before John is born, and the other when he was 10, not 13 as this movie explains). However, the resistance sends Kyle Reese after the first T-800, because Reese volunteers after being in love with Sarah for so many years, and as a safety precaution, John sends a reprogrammed T-800 back to 1995 (T2 was meant to take place in '95, when John was 10, rather than it's release date in '91), because John knows Kyle doesn't survive the first T-800 encounter.
What's so conflicting in the timeline so far? The only problem, is the fact Judgement Day could only occur after T2, if back-up data on the T-800 neuro-processor were present at another Cyberdyne Systems location, allowing Cyberdyne to build Skynet.
For this version of the timeline to take place, Skynet would have to have installed false historical data and inaccurate "detailed files" on Dyson's involvement in the Skynet project in the CS-101 infiltrators (the endoskeletons, including the 800 series), and the T-1000, so as to mislead Sarah and John Connor. Also, John Connor would have had to deny the T-800 and Kyle Reese the real timeline information, so as to keep the space-time continuum loop in place.
This new timeline is as inconsistent as Gundam Wing is to Mobile Suit Gundam.
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Toecutter
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:21 am
- Location: Oregon
I agree that Judgement Day would eventually occur, due to the military's constant shift towards automated smart weapons, and fire-and-forget technology. However, Skynet was a computer network that was the result of Dyson, and the T-800 chip recovered in the first movie. In fact, if you watch the deleted scenes on the special edition DVD, the factory Reese and Sarah are fighting the terminator in IS Cyberdyne Systems. Two employees find the damaged chip during the police investigation, and keep it from the cops.
Judgement Day would still occur, but it would be a different defense network system. It would be far more consistent with the whole alternate timeline thing to have Judgement Day caused by a software-based Homeland Security defense network. The.... ahem, "T-101", and T-X would never exist to be sent back through time. Instead, this alternate future war with the Machines would involve completely different weapons systems, seeing as Cyberdyne would have no part in it.
Think of the timeline as an infinitely large family tree, which splits off into two paths for each change in state of the universe (a binary based system, in which each branch represents an event on the subatomic scale, which either happened, or never occurred). Once Cyberdyne Systems' special projects division was destroyed, one of the major links which follows the branching off of the initial creation of the universe (the alternate timeline which leads to "The Terminator"'s Judgement Day), does not exist, making every sequence of events which requires Cyberdyne Systems to exist (everything from the clock in the janitor's office to read 8am the next day, to the future war with the Machines) impossible. Once that occurs, no terminators from that timeline, such as the T-1000 or T-800 series, can travel back through time, because in order for them to exist, and use the time displacement equipment, that previous branch in the timeline must occur.
Get it?
Judgement Day would still occur, but it would be a different defense network system. It would be far more consistent with the whole alternate timeline thing to have Judgement Day caused by a software-based Homeland Security defense network. The.... ahem, "T-101", and T-X would never exist to be sent back through time. Instead, this alternate future war with the Machines would involve completely different weapons systems, seeing as Cyberdyne would have no part in it.
Think of the timeline as an infinitely large family tree, which splits off into two paths for each change in state of the universe (a binary based system, in which each branch represents an event on the subatomic scale, which either happened, or never occurred). Once Cyberdyne Systems' special projects division was destroyed, one of the major links which follows the branching off of the initial creation of the universe (the alternate timeline which leads to "The Terminator"'s Judgement Day), does not exist, making every sequence of events which requires Cyberdyne Systems to exist (everything from the clock in the janitor's office to read 8am the next day, to the future war with the Machines) impossible. Once that occurs, no terminators from that timeline, such as the T-1000 or T-800 series, can travel back through time, because in order for them to exist, and use the time displacement equipment, that previous branch in the timeline must occur.
Get it?
GoatMan
was here!
was here!
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Toecutter
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:21 am
- Location: Oregon
As for the possibility of similar terminators existing from a different version of Skynet; remember the infiltrators, the terminators being a branch of them, are the endoskeletons first developed by Cyberdyne Systems. Reese, and the other T-800 series terminators all indicate they are the Cyberdyne Systems Model 101. The CS-101 endoskeleton is the direct result of the prototype neuro-processor Dyson was working on (note the cylindrical chamber in the upper right hand frontal lobe of the CS-101: that's where the chip is stored), as a method for humans to be taken out of the infantry.
A similar defense network system would never develop something as close as the CS-101 based infiltrators, especially Arnold's character. Basically, Skynet was taking the resources and technology available to it, and using them for it's needs, slowly upgrading them to compete with the Resistance. For example, a slight evolution in the ground-based HK's can be seen (the first movie has the tank-styled HK's firing single-barreled lasers on rotating turrets, while the second film has them firing twin-barreled lasers on the same rotating turret). If you check out the T2 Ultimate Edition DVD, there were a slew of different HK's Cameron had sketched out, including multi-legged "Centurions". These would be the direct result of Skynet's "imagination", including the time-displacement equipment, and bunkers used by the Machines.
The CS-101, and original HK's are the result of the future U.S. military tinkering, with the tooling and tolerancing slightly altered for superior combat effectiveness. It's also important to note Reese says the survivors of Judgement Day were rounded up into work-camps, much like the Nazis did for the Jews to produce the necessary weaponry for Hitler's Blitzkrieg tactics. The original HK's and infiltrators would be produced by the enslaved survivors, until a completely automated manufacturing system could be brought on-line, when the humans would finally be put to "efficient, orderly disposal".
Therefore, the Machines this John Connor would fight should be a completely different genus all together. Granted, some of the same ideas would be reached by this defense network, but since the joint Cyberdyne/military projects never occured, this new threat would never produce a T-101 terminator. The T-X is theoretically capable of being produced, but it is a hybridized version of the 800 and 1000 series, requiring the Cyberdyne research. Also, the T-X would most likely be referred to as the T-1200, using Skynet's original designation. Humans add in the "2000", or "X" designation automatically to something to make it sound cool, compared to it's predecessors.
A similar defense network system would never develop something as close as the CS-101 based infiltrators, especially Arnold's character. Basically, Skynet was taking the resources and technology available to it, and using them for it's needs, slowly upgrading them to compete with the Resistance. For example, a slight evolution in the ground-based HK's can be seen (the first movie has the tank-styled HK's firing single-barreled lasers on rotating turrets, while the second film has them firing twin-barreled lasers on the same rotating turret). If you check out the T2 Ultimate Edition DVD, there were a slew of different HK's Cameron had sketched out, including multi-legged "Centurions". These would be the direct result of Skynet's "imagination", including the time-displacement equipment, and bunkers used by the Machines.
The CS-101, and original HK's are the result of the future U.S. military tinkering, with the tooling and tolerancing slightly altered for superior combat effectiveness. It's also important to note Reese says the survivors of Judgement Day were rounded up into work-camps, much like the Nazis did for the Jews to produce the necessary weaponry for Hitler's Blitzkrieg tactics. The original HK's and infiltrators would be produced by the enslaved survivors, until a completely automated manufacturing system could be brought on-line, when the humans would finally be put to "efficient, orderly disposal".
Therefore, the Machines this John Connor would fight should be a completely different genus all together. Granted, some of the same ideas would be reached by this defense network, but since the joint Cyberdyne/military projects never occured, this new threat would never produce a T-101 terminator. The T-X is theoretically capable of being produced, but it is a hybridized version of the 800 and 1000 series, requiring the Cyberdyne research. Also, the T-X would most likely be referred to as the T-1200, using Skynet's original designation. Humans add in the "2000", or "X" designation automatically to something to make it sound cool, compared to it's predecessors.
GoatMan
was here!
was here!