Bush's anouncement

Simpi · Post by **Simpi** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:39 am

Me pukes. You should be ashamed to say things like that. And your thread "no foreigners allowed..." :roll:[/quote]

One american told me that majority of americans, especially Rush Limbaugh types like Mroni do not understand the european view. He said that in america, you can jump to a car, drive for seven hours and still stay in the same state.

In europe, you drive for seven hours and most likely you will end up in different country where people do not understand your language. Europeans understand that you just cannot behave like you are alone in the world.

As for war, some people don't realise that Iraq has been occupied several times in the past. Nothing good has ever happened to Iraqi people as a result. Some people might wonder why Iraqi soldiers would fight for a dictator like Saddam. People also fight for the homeland and independence. No matter how red-white-and-blue you appear, economic interests are main driving force behind this unlawful invasion.

One example of course is this article http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Worl ... 30322.html, not to mention the fact that Halliburton (Dick Cheneys ex-company) received contract for re-building Iraqi oilfields. These oilfields will of course be privatised so Iraqi people will not benefit of them.

I can see from different medias how americans are irritated by resistance in southern iraq. Also british news how they had conquered city of Faw and later they took it back (somebody shot at us!) has once again shown that no news should be taken at face value. Propaganda is a mighty weapon.

Also, it appears that Iraqi do not have to do anything to humiliate 'coalition' army. So far US & UK have lost 19 men from chopper crashes, 1 dead & 12 wounded when own soldier snapped and only 6 men in combat. More will follow when/if they reach Baghdad.

And of course, no proof of connection between Iraq & Al-Qaida has been shown. WMD:s will of course be found, after UK & US plant them there. I wonder when US will give out an official declaration of war?

btw, look here if you want to see what US does in Baghdad atm (warning: Not for the faint hearted). http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-22-26.htm These kind of images will not do well for US in arab world. I just read a newspaper report that hundreds of Palestinians are volunteering to fight against american troops.

Waiting for flame responses.

Dark Dragon · Post by **Dark Dragon** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 11:56 am

To Simpi, this is what would have happened anyways.

Bush leave Saddam alone, Saddam falls off his rocker and attacks the world at random.

Nations cry out at America for being arrogent and stupid for not attacking Saddam when we had the chance.

After Nations have asses kicked they come crying back to us and say: Please save our sorry asses, even though we can not find them with a map, flashlight and both of our hands and we will probably yell at you again when you try to save the world from another insane person early again.

America rises yet again, smites Saddam down, World nations cheer.

Then some other asshole comes up and it starts all over again.

Hmm, that sounds about right with how people act.

And shut the fuck up about the losses, they are dead man, don't drag their deaths through the gutter, so back off.

Also, if I had a chance to kill someone before they turned evil and kill innocent people, like Hitler, Osama, Saddam or even Aerofat and his homicide bombers, I would. There are just some people that no matter how much you talk to them, they will not listen and change, get over that one little fact and see Saddam for the pug faced little cowardly asshole he is.

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 12:37 pm

Simpi wrote: He said that in america, you can jump to a car, drive for seven hours and still stay in the same state.

That's probably in reference to Texas

Very large state.

Simpi wrote:I can see from different medias how americans are irritated by resistance in southern iraq. Also british news how they had conquered city of Faw and later they took it back (somebody shot at us!) has once again shown that no news should be taken at face value. Propaganda is a mighty weapon.

From the timing of reports that I have read, it's not propaganda. If the media reports a town is taken without resistance, and after that is printed, soldiers take the town back....well yeah, that has nothing to due with someones personal journalistic bias.

Simpi wrote:Also, it appears that Iraqi do not have to do anything to humiliate 'coalition' army. So far US & UK have lost 19 men from chopper crashes, 1 dead & 12 wounded when own soldier snapped and only 6 men in combat. More will follow when/if they reach Baghdad.

Very compassionate of you.

Simpi wrote:And of course, no proof of connection between Iraq & Al-Qaida has been shown. WMD:s will of course be found, after UK & US plant them there. I wonder when US will give out an official declaration of war?

It is your right to believe that. I don't think anything along the nulcear scale will be found, but I wouldn't be surprised if chemical agents are found/used.

And planting weapons

Just like those missiles fired at Kuwait (which Iraq told UN inspectors it didn't have, and succesfully hid the missles from them) were actually fired by the US & UK. (though 3 US missles did land in Iran)

Simpi wrote: I just read a newspaper report that hundreds of Palestinians are volunteering to fight against american troops.

I would not be the least bit surprised if that is true, a friend of their enemy, is also their enemy.

cnn.com wrote:• Iran said Sunday a missile that landed in the western region of Sardasht last week belongs to Iraq -- not the United States, as first suspected. U.S. officials say they are still probing another incident in which three U.S. Tomahawk missiles fired Friday mistakenly landed in southwestern Iran.
• U.S. Marines encountered heavy resistance and have suffered casualties Sunday in fighting near the southeastern Iraqi city of Nasiriya. Marines entered the town after Iraqi forces ambushed a U.S. military convoy carrying supplies.
• The U.S. Army 7th Cavalry's 3rd Squadron encountered heavy artillery fire Sunday in south-central Iraq. Earlier, reconnaissance soldiers told CNN that Iraqi forces were using women and children as human shields at key military positions.
• Australian commandos operating deep in Iraq called in allied fighter jets to destroy an Iraqi ballistic missile site, defense and government officials said Sunday.

This is from our biased american media. I don't think propaganda points out the wrongs of the group it is trying to support.

Simpi wrote:Waiting for flame responses.

Tolerance, please. Tolerance.

Simpi · Post by **Simpi** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 12:44 pm

After Nations have asses kicked they come crying back to us and say: Please save our sorry asses, even though we can not find them with a map, flashlight and both of our hands and we will probably yell at you again when you try to save the world from another insane person early again.

Hmmm...that's new. When was the last time america has intervened with military might when something bad happened somewhere around the world? Pakistan? East-Timor, no.... I do agree that few finnish companies were making a mess there. They should be punished.

America rises yet again, smites Saddam down, World nations cheer.
Then some other asshole comes up and it starts all over again.
Hmm, that sounds about right with how people act.

You can be sure of that. I don't know if american newspapers are reporting it, but resentment is rising around the gulf. Jordan has already cancelled couple of demonstrations and put riot police into position in case things get violent.

Let's not forget Saudi-Arabia (a nation you cannot call democracy) stands of feet of clay. Only the ruling elite supports US and normal people don't want US bases there. If war drags on, I believe a coup in SA is possible.

Also, if I had a chance to kill someone before they turned evil and kill innocent people, like Hitler, Osama, Saddam or even Aerofat and his homicide bombers, I would. There are just some people that no matter how much you talk to them, they will not listen and change, get over that one little fact and see Saddam for the pug faced little cowardly asshole he is.[/quote]

Ah, the benefit of hindsight. Same reason why people ask protesters 'how about if somebody would have removed Hitler before he attacked Poland and started WWII. Then they fail to point out that peace treaty of Great war was the main reason guy like Hitler could rise to power.

I don't remember who was the british general who said 'This treaty is humiliating for germany and does nothing to prevent similiar events in the future. I predict we are in war in two decades.'

Arafat. I think you are barking at the wrong tree. Don't you think that Sharon, visiting Al Aqsa mosque after failed negotiations had nothing to do with? I'm pointing to US direction as Neoconservatives want to increase their support for right-wing Israelis.

Don't come saying about 'generous offer' as even an Israeli organisation has said that proposed map of Palestine, with roadblocks, check points, etc. could not be called 'a sovereign state' by any standards.

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 12:53 pm

Use the preview button Simpi

I had to use it 7 or 8 times to make sure all the quotes were done right.

And as far as Arafat and Sharon, they are both to blame for many problems over there. They are stubborn, and foolhardy. I dislike suicide bombers, though (but this could become a long rant, so I will leave it at just dislike). And Arafats condoning of such a thing leads me to dislike him much more than Sharon.

Dark Dragon · Post by **Dark Dragon** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 12:55 pm

Leave the Israeli people alone, they aren't doing the homicide bombs and killing innocent children you asshole!

*Twitches.*

I hate people like you with no sense whatsoever, the Israeli's retaliate when they get bombed or is your fucking brain to small to compreheand even that small fucnking FACT!!?!?!?!?!

Listen you little idiot, if they do not show some back bone like they do, they are literaly saying, come one come all, we will not fight back when you kill us.

So I say, kill the Homicide bombers before they kill kids, women and babies.

Now listen to this,

If Arafat really wanted peace, he wouldn't have turned down the prime package he was offered during Clintons last year in office.

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:01 pm

Dark Dragon wrote: I hate people like you with no sense whatsoever, the Israeli's retaliate when they get bombed or is your fucking brain to small to compreheand even that small fucnking FACT!!?!?!?!?!

You do realise that the suicide bombings are also a form of retaliation. It has become cyclic, with no begining, and therefore, no end. Each action from either side now is "justifiable" in their own minds, and in reallity (though neither is trully justifiable).

Also, refrain from ad hominem when discussing something.

Simpi · Post by **Simpi** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:12 pm

Very compassionate of you.

Hey, they are fighting a war of aggression that goes against international regulations. Several layers have already said that resolution 1441 does not approve war. But then again, Bush only went to UN to get an approval and after he did not get it, he went on already.

I do agree that UN is a quite toothless organisation (but useful in terms of humanitarian aid and international forum) and situation could quite easily be made better if rights of veto would be removed.

And planting weapons :roll: Just like those missiles fired at Kuwait (which Iraq told UN inspectors it didn't have, and succesfully hid the missles from them) were actually fired by the US & UK. (though 3 US missles did land in Iran)

Though it has not yet confirmed they were Scuds. Besides, Iraq did not have the time to dismantle all Al-Samouds that exceed range. War has started so no point of not using them. I do understand Iraqi point of view. Finns hid weapons after WWII when we feared russian occupation and we are still finding weapon caches.

This is from our biased american media. I don't think propaganda points out the wrongs of the group it is trying to support.

I agree I was not completely right on this matter. I still say people should be careful of what they read.

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:16 pm

Ah, the benefit of hindsight. Same reason why people ask protesters 'how about if somebody would have removed Hitler before he attacked Poland and started WWII. Then they fail to point out that peace treaty of Great war was the main reason guy like Hitler could rise to power.

umm. . .only this isnt hindsight. Iraqi regime invaded other countries already. How many more times should he be allowed to invade someone before extraction?

Don't come saying about 'generous offer' as even an Israeli organisation has said that proposed map of Palestine, with roadblocks, check points, etc. could not be called 'a sovereign state' by any standards.

this has nothing to do with israel, and seguaying to it is stupid and obviously shows a lack of focus.

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:29 pm

Simpi wrote:Very compassionate of you.

Hey, they are fighting a war of aggression that goes against international regulations. Several layers have already said that resolution 1441 does not approve war. But then again, Bush only went to UN to get an approval and after he did not get it, he went on already.

What part of "The UN doesn't have final say in whats good for America" don't you get? Especially an organisation that seats Iraq at the head of the disarming comittee?

I do agree that UN is a quite toothless organisation (but useful in terms of humanitarian aid and international forum) and situation could quite easily be made better if rights of veto would be removed.

that only addresses a symptom. The actual problem is the participants are corrupt and use vetos as a maneuvaring tactic for political gain instead of whats right. Removing veto wont fix that, they'll find another way to try and get their agenda paramount.

And planting weapons Just like those missiles fired at Kuwait (which Iraq told UN inspectors it didn't have, and succesfully hid the missles from them) were actually fired by the US & UK. (though 3 US missles did land in Iran)

I have a difficult time stomaching people like you who are quick to believe that all people in power are so quick to lie, cheat, steal, and otherwise cause mischeif. You who would actually believe the people in power would commit tens of thousands of people in harms way based on planted evidence and imagined hurts. You spit on the honor of the people who commit their lives in the british, american, and australian military who were UNDER FIRE from those weapons, by implicating they were planted, false, or shot at by their own.

now, that being said. News confirms that Iran states it wasn't american missles that landed in Iran, but IRAQI missles.

Though it has not yet confirmed they were Scuds. Besides, Iraq did not have the time to dismantle all Al-Samouds that exceed range. War has started so no point of not using them.

The idiocy of this logic. . .in 1991 when he first signed an agreement to disarm, saddam said it would take 15 days to comply. he has had PLENTY of time, and any imferrance that he hasn't is juvenial and ignorant.

and there's no point in not using them? I thought you just said that Americans PLANTED these weapons, and that Iraq Regime didn't even have them anymore? I don't think your line of logic holds up, there.

I agree I was not completely right on this matter. I still say people should be careful of what they read.

this i agree. Most of us hit several international news sites. and those of us multilingual have an advantage and responsibility to do just that.