Take that, UN!

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:03 pm

PS - sorry if the above post offends anyone. Being irritated by a crappy, exhausting day today, I have nothing left but flame the people the leaders of the 'free world'. I'm not saying the US sucks. Or Britain sucks. Or anyone sucks. I'm just pointing out that their position in the present world is horridly hypocritical.

HungryCrackPot · Post by **HungryCrackPot** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:20 pm

i should be president
ice cream would be
free

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:25 pm

Anime girls love
ice cream

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:31 pm

Just give us some of those ADV soap bars... only live-sized...

And now that I've read some things regarding personal attack rules etc...

...I think I'd rather stay away from political discussions from now on.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:49 pm

Otohiko wrote:I just hope the US doesn't start thinking they can do anything now

True. We shouldn't get cocky.

Otohiko wrote:that Europe realizes what assholes they keep trying to get in bed with

Europe currently needs the US, at least for military reasons. Although the US doesn't provide all of Europe's military defense, our supplementing allows them to spend less on it, and more on social stuff. Could the EU manage to make an army to match the US? Possibly, although it could hurt their social systems more.

Europe has plenty of asshole tendencies, too, especially in regards to Eastern Europe, who they seem to view as lesser Europeans.

Otohiko wrote:that states like India and China keep developing into a true counterweight to this self-proclaimed superpower.

China is too big and has too many people to be a truly effective superpower. Outside of the cities (which aren't that great), they have little in the way of domestic support systems. For that matter, too, until China improves its current style of government, do we really WANT China calling shots all over the world?

India is close to the same situation as China, and might be even worse off.
They still have caste prejudice, low literacy rates, poor sanitation and health, and economic issues to work out. In fact, both China and India are really just "superpowers" in a military sense, and even that's open for debate.

Just because both have nukes and rockets, does not mean they have power. I mentioned previously that the US can (involuntarily, even) dictate how things work in the world due to our economic and cultural power. You can get McDonald's in both nations, buy Western brands, and see Western corporations at work over there (which will hurt us eventually, but that's another topic). I have yet to see anything close to that from China or India here in North America or Europe.

For that matter, if China managed to step up to the world superpower plate, it'd practically be the Cold War all over again - which is NOT a good thing.

Just because the US currently occupies the top spot does not mean we will do so forever. It also does not mean that just having any "balance" to American superpower is a good thing either.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:14 pm

Well, perhaps I should dump all the crap on the US. Of course China has problems! And of course another cold war may be dangerous!

I suppose this all comes from my inherent dislike of the American model of society, knowing it perhaps a bit too well. I don't think pushing the rest of the world to adapt it will lead to any good. Were I Chinese, or say North Korean (their closest and politically most similar neighbor) I would be just as likely to blame everything on Chinese communist society, and hope for its' demise.

It's all a matter of perception. I've seen too much of the American way and I don't like it. Alternatives? Who knows... I would quickly get off their case were they to stop their blatant hypocricy and propaganda and just admit they're doing it all in the best interest of their own security, wealth and dominance, like in the olden days. Democracy can be good, but not when it's all based on lies. Then again, suppose not everyone sees this as lies. As I said, a matter of perception.

<returns to political non-involvement>

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:15 pm

Otohiko wrote:Well, perhaps I shouldn't dump all the crap on the US. Of course China has problems! And of course another cold war may be dangerous!
<returns to political non-involvement>

I stand corrected 8)

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:45 pm

Otohiko wrote:I don't think pushing the rest of the world to adapt it will lead to any good.

How is the West pushing anything (most of the time it isn't, anyways)?

Otohiko wrote:It's all a matter of perception. I've seen too much of the American way and I don't like it.

What don't you like about it? And what way is better? Most powerful nations (meaning those with mainly Western ideals, for some reason) are the same. There are no viable HAPPY alternatives.

I don't want China to be run the way it is now, much less have China calling the shots for other nations.

Otohiko wrote:Alternatives? Who knows... I would quickly get off their case were they to stop their blatant hypocricy and propaganda and just admit they're doing it all in the best interest of their own security, wealth and dominance, like in the olden days.

So, basically, so long as we truthfully state that we wanted Iraq's oil and to settle a personal presidential vendetta, you're OK with that?

Otohiko wrote:Democracy can be good, but not when it's all based on lies. Then again, suppose not everyone sees this as lies. As I said, a matter of perception.

A perception of what, exactly?

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:11 pm

I'm not a communist, nor anything else really.

I don't care why the US is in Iraq. I'm more interested in how that's considered to be an action for the interests of democracy, peace, etc.

I don't care what the hell they claim to be. This is still the same society. I'm likely going to have to live in this Western society for the rest of my life. The fact that I see it as a corrupt, self-destructive and unhealthy phenomenon doesn't change its' nature. It's a matter of perception. Others don't see it as that.

I just don't like to be surrounded by blatant lies. Nothing makes me more sick than an oppressive society screaming their heads off via propaganda about how good they are and how bad those against them are. Again, this is my perception. Others see what I perceive as propaganda to be truth.

In the end, we're all seeing the same picture from different angles.

But, who cares about what I think. I've given up. I'm sitting here on the sidelines, confident that it's all gonna fall apart. I'll just slither my way through the whole thing quietly and enjoy things that exist safely outside of it.

Forget it.

All I'm trying to say is that politics, as everything else, is something that everyone perceives differently. I just don't think that common practice is a good enough reason to commit violence, kill people, degrade the environment, and lie left and right, and then say it's all for the best. People deserve better than that.

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:37 am

Most people in Western society, including Americans, are more concerned with staying alive and comfortable than with screwing over other people.

Otohiko wrote: Any of these clowns is responsible for more innocent deaths than Osama, Milosevich, Saddam and the next dozen 'dictators' put together.

Disagreed.

Otohiko wrote:UN... was always secretly run by US influence

Disagreed.

etc.