!HOT! Christian Bible burning action OMG!

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:34 am

OmniStrata wrote:I for one must be hallucinating. I was in two near death situations and both times I saw the same angel...

Yeah, and I must have been hallucinating the time I had a dream that my girlfriend was cheating on me, and a few days later found out that she was. Or the time I dreamt that she confessed to me that she had been cheating before, and the next day I found out that she had cheated on me a year ago. Or the time I dreamt about her wanting to get back together after we broke up, and then it happened.

freud dosen't quite account for the timing on that, because I never dream about her.
Point, TONs of people have experiences that can not be explained by blind phenomenalism or current science. This is where vastly different and strange religious beliefs usually fill in the gaps.

I, for one, know of a superset to ancient Hinduism that accounts for things like out of body/near death experiences and other occult qualities. I choose to follow this set of beliefs. Why? Because it makes the most sense. More sense than hard science, because hard science is still pretty damn limited in explaining things like what we experienced.

The fact that I have more than one real life friends (yes I do have RL friends ~_~) who claim to have induced OBE's themselves and even communicated things while out of body only adds to that. People are quick to call stuff like that ridiculous or crazy while they go to church and worship an omnipotent being who created everything and loves all people, or go subscribe to blind science and it's half assed story of existance.

Now, based on what I've researched about topics like OBE/NDE, let me tell you this. The fact that you saw angels dosen't necessarily mean they had to be the same angels christianity teaches. Metaphysical realms are COMPLETELY subjective. They're a painting board for your mind. If you're christian, you're going to expect to see an angel, you're going to see it. Or say you see some high level being, whatever it may be, of course you're going to interpret it as god or an angel. Learn to OBE, go find the angel, ask him if he loves the pope and church. See what he says. I'll be interested to know as well, so come back with the answer.

The Uncaused Cause is generally referred to as God; if you choose to believe that explanation.

This is called copping out because you can't come up with a better explanation. Here comes anthropomorphic god to fill in all the gaps and answer all the questions. HELLO ACTUAL THINKING.

Whether actual worship of God is reasonable is something else entirely unrelated to whether or not He exists.

Interesting, agreed.

Again, I'm seeing a huge bias in this thread. It's not phenomenalism/science + atheism vs religion/spiritualism, it's atheism vs christianity/judaism. You're all speaking of god in terms of the anthropomorphic semitic definition.

Disclaimer: I do not mean to offend with my arrogant attitude. If I do, sorry

I've just done a lot of research and thinking on this crap and hold my opinions in relatively high reguard.

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:49 am

Tab. wrote:
The Uncaused Cause is generally referred to as God; if you choose to believe that explanation.
This is called copping out because you can't come up with a better explanation. Here comes anthropomorphic god to fill in all the gaps and answer all the questions. HELLO ACTUAL THINKING.

I don't think that I have carried across the spirit of the argument correctly if this is the conclusion you have drawn from it. I in fact was not trying to prove the existence of an anthropomorphic God, only to express in uncomplicated terms someone else's argument so as to add to the discussion. The only "question" here is whether there is a first cause or not. God, by the definition that I put on him, is the First Cause, if there is one. Therefore, if I choose to believe that there is such a Cause, I define it as being God.

Tab." wrote:Again, I'm seeing a huge bias in this thread. It's not phenomenalism/science + atheism vs religion/spiritualism, it's atheism vs christianity/judaism. You're all speaking of god in terms of the anthropomorphic semitic definition.

Disclaimer: I do not mean to offend with my arrogant attitude. If I do, sorry I've just done a lot of research and thinking on this crap and hold my opinions in relatively high reguard.

Actually, I do object to being told that my arguments are either 'copping out' or lack 'ACTUAL THINKING'. Please, if you've put this much research into it, try to carry across your opinions without alienating others. I've spent hours in debate on this issue also, and expect at least etiquette from you if not respect.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:56 am

huh
I wasn't referring to you when I said it was a cop out. I was referring to those who think that they can just use the mainstream idea of God as a crutch for everything they can't explain.

Personally I would agree if you were saying that god is not a being with definite existance but merely a cause of existance, the infinite first cause, or the universal thought which becomes reality. My beliefs go hand in hand with that, if there is something you can call god as a creator, it would be the undefined cause which results in the universe coming out of theory and into play.

Btw, I meant to quote this

Most of what I've said so far is pretty standard, but that doesnt' make it unimportant.

with another "agreed"

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:53 am

Glad to know that that's been cleared up.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:20 pm

I apologise for the mix up.

Kegger007 · Post by **Kegger007** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:11 pm

First I just wanna say thankyou to all the people who have put a lot of thought and effort into their arguements here. It's not oftern I get to flex the intellectual muscle with people who know what they are talking about. I agree that people should go out and study, actually take an in-depth look into other religions and their texts, because there is so much more we can learn about ourselves from others. Only by looking out will we be able to look in, to our own existence. Maybe it's just my feeble Grade 11 mind trying to put an understanding to things, or maybe it's just my optimism that would like to hope for a more defined existence. Whichever the case may be, I'm glad to have been discussing these things with all the people here. I've got a lot of respect for people who present their points and give valid reasons for their beliefs.

Tab. wrote:
OmniStrata wrote:I for one must be hallucinating. I was in two near death situations and both times I saw the same angel...
Yeah, and I must have been hallucinating the time I had a dream that my girlfriend was cheating on me, and a few days later found out that she was. Or the time I dreamt that she confessed to me that she had been cheating before, and the next day I found out that she had cheated on me a year ago. Or the time I dreamt about her wanting to get back together after we broke up, and then it happened. freud dosen't quite account for the timing on that, because I never dream about her.
Point, TONs of people have experiences that can not be explained by blind phenomenalism or current science. This is where vastly different and strange religious beliefs usually fill in the gaps.

And as a final note, for this quote. It may seem a little off the wall, so bear with me. I always seem to get deja vu, and more than once I could've sworn that I had dreamed of a situation that I later experienced, maybe even years later. To this phenomenon, I attribute the fact that I believe that all human beings are inherently psychic on some level. Dreaming about your future sub-consciously and then experience those dreams in real life causes that strange feeling of deja vu. Have you ever been sitting somewhere and get that strange feeling that you are being watched? That's most likely an instinctual reaction in a psychic mind.
Also, the psychic minds I'm talking about aren't the ones you see on TV, those, in my opinion are bs.
Maybe I just watch too much of The Learning Channel

Okay I'm done with my off the wall ideas....

Peace!

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:16 pm

I went through the exact same thing with deja vu. Sometimes even to the extent of remembering slightly into the future and being able to change what happened slightly from the original dream.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:04 pm

See now, hinduism and occultism offer solutions to the question of, WTF AM I HAVING PROPHETIC DREAMS?!?!?

that's why I buy it. Christianity on the other hand denounces anything that isn't covered in it's official doctrine as works of the devil.

That's a good call about deja vu.. I never even thought of that. Since most of our dreams sink far below our subconscious and we don't recall them, it would make sense that deja vu is simply the act of playing out an event which brings up the memory of a dormant dream.
But it's actually just a glitch in the matrix.

Kegger007 · Post by **Kegger007** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:15 pm

A funny note about the Matrix. My buddy's World Religion's class got to watch the Matrix because it had something to do with Buddhism. I think it was the fact that reality is not what it seems or something. I thought that was stupid, because my class didn't get to watch The Matrix, all we got to see was a movie about the Dalai Llama called Kundun. Sux to be me I guess!

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:35 pm

wow ... ya know that slipknot song ... "people = shit" ... it has a whole new meaning (again) ...

all the worlds major religions are basicaly the exact fucking same thing ... only the fine print (which people obsess over) is different ... who gives a flying fuck what you belive if you belive in anything.

And book burning is a terrible fucking waste ... recycle ... it's better for the enviroment.

*note ... i jsut read kthulhu's first post ... not the other 4 pages of discusion ... so i'm liable to be off topic*

/fin