Matrix Revolutions

[downwithpants]

both he and morpheus were imbalances in the matrix

You mean Neo..not Morpheus...right?

yep, i was just bein an idiot again . i was in a rush when i wrote that and i didnt have time to reread it.

I was under the impression that Deus Ex Machina used the fact that it had Neo plugged in to the Smith program to destroy it from within once he was assimilated, hence the surge of light into him.

Yes, that's what happened. So in effect, the merging of Neo and Smith (the two imbalances) was necessary for the restoration of the matrix.

[billy_wires]

That's not how I understood it. It was said that Smith is Neo's opposite. We know what Neo is the inequality of The Architect's otherwise perfect Matrix program. So, when Smith assimilated Neo, the two cancelled each other out, balancing the equation again.

Which is exactly why Neo isn't dead. The Oracle said that her purpose was to unbalance a balance, thus when Smith dies, the matrix moves to a world of really nothing, because the architect promises to remove all the humans, reviving Neo. As previously stated, there are some DBZ/GT references, and the ending of GT allows for a re-entry of Goku, who leaves in much the same way. Also, the Oracle hints that Neo may come back. What still confuses me, though, is what is to become of the matrix?

I wrote this place. I am god.

No, I am God.

[Savia]

As far as I can make out, the Matrix will remain in place, and all those that want to leave will be allowed to do so. Whether the question will be asked on a conscious or unconscious level, I don't know.

[downwithpants]

The architect said he would set all the humans still plugged into the Matrix free, having been convinced that he could not create a perfect balanced Matrix. I interpreted this as the end of the Matrix since it would need to shut down, because 1) it would no longer serve any purpose, and 2) the machines controlling and running the Matrix would run out of power after being unable to harvest energy from the humans.

[Savia]

Actually, the exchange between the Architect and the Oracle goes something like 'And what about those who want out?' 'They'll be set free, of course'. Not everyone wants to get out of the Matrix.

[downwithpants]

I thought it was like
Oracle: What about those who are still plugged in?
Architect: They'll be set free.

If the Oracle had asked who wanted out, we would have an epistomological problem. In order for a person in the Matrix to want to leave the Matrix, they would need to know that they are in the Matrix. Once a person knows he or she is in the Matrix, the purpose of the Matrix (to blind humans from the outside world) is defeated.

This was why Morpheus had to ask Neo to choose between the red pill or blue pill. Neo would not have been able to continue living blindly in the Matrix if he knew about the Matrix but remained plugged in, and he would have gone nuts.

[Savia]

I thought it was like
Oracle: What about those who are still plugged in?
Architect: They'll be set free.

If the Oracle had asked who wanted out, we would have an epistomological problem. In order for a person in the Matrix to want to leave the Matrix, they would need to know that they are in the Matrix. Once a person knows he or she is in the Matrix, the purpose of the Matrix (to blind humans from the outside world) is defeated.

This was why Morpheus had to ask Neo to choose between the red pill or blue pill. Neo would not have been able to continue living blindly in the Matrix if he knew about the Matrix but remained plugged in, and he would have gone nuts.

I'm almost certain that the conversation went the way I said. Because I thought it was important, I made a mental note of it when I inexplicably ended up seeing it again. As mentioned by the Architect, the method used to get humans to accept the Matrix allows them to make a choice at an unconscious level whether or not to accept the world in front of their eyes. Those that reject it feel the uneasiness experienced by Thomas Anderson whilst still plugged in. So those that don't mind the fake world stay in there, and those that want out, get out.

[dwchang]

I thought it was like
Oracle: What about those who are still plugged in?
Architect: They'll be set free.

If the Oracle had asked who wanted out, we would have an epistomological problem. In order for a person in the Matrix to want to leave the Matrix, they would need to know that they are in the Matrix. Once a person knows he or she is in the Matrix, the purpose of the Matrix (to blind humans from the outside world) is defeated.

This was why Morpheus had to ask Neo to choose between the red pill or blue pill. Neo would not have been able to continue living blindly in the Matrix if he knew about the Matrix but remained plugged in, and he would have gone nuts.

I'm almost certain that the conversation went the way I said. Because I thought it was important, I made a mental note of it when I inexplicably ended up seeing it again. As mentioned by the Architect, the method used to get humans to accept the Matrix allows them to make a choice at an unconscious level whether or not to accept the world in front of their eyes. Those that reject it feel the uneasiness experienced by Thomas Anderson whilst still plugged in. So those that don't mind the fake world stay in there, and those that want out, get out.

I'm pretty darn sure that Savia is correct on this one. I recall the conversation the same as him/her.

I don't think the Machines would take a bargain in which they are destroyed this way instead. They decided on a truce for mutual survival...for them to lose all their powers is just as stupid as Smith taking over.

Something that one of my friends has mentioned is that perhaps they changed Revolutions *after* Reloaded was released and the (negative) reaction it got. I've said numerous times how I was angered by the lack of well..substance in this film even though it was implied in the 2nd movie (via the Frenchman and Architect).

At the same time, you'll notice that most people *hated* all this "stupid philosophy crap" about choice (or rather the illusion of choice). Do you guys think it's possible they made some new edits after the negative reaction to the 2nd film's "mumbo jumbo." It wouldn't have been that difficult to edit a few things out and a few things in right?

Anyway, I have nothing to back this up other than how the 2nd and 3rd movie are so different and everything presented in the 2nd one being useless. It's just an interesting comment I heard.

[jonmartensen]

[downwithpants]

I'm almost certain that the conversation went the way I said. Because I thought it was important, I made a mental note of it when I inexplicably ended up seeing it again. As mentioned by the Architect, the method used to get humans to accept the Matrix allows them to make a choice at an unconscious level whether or not to accept the world in front of their eyes. Those that reject it feel the uneasiness experienced by Thomas Anderson whilst still plugged in. So those that don't mind the fake world stay in there, and those that want out, get out.

Now that I think about it, I think I misheard the Oracle say "weren't out" instead of "wanted out." Anyways, that makes a lot more sense than what I had previously thought. Now I have to go see it again... Thanks for the explanation anyways.

And yeah, it is quite a shame that they abandoned the philosophical issues they brought up in Reloaded. Though, I don't think they had much left to explain regarding the Frenchman's explanation causality -- that was wrapped up nicely with the cake-eating blonde -- they could have concluded or elaborated on the perception-of-control dilemma the counselor dude brought up.

white rectangles are pretty