"Piracy Policies"... Not me!

[trythil]

I'd like to see how it turns out if nothing else than to be proven wrong that I think videos with pre-compressed footage will always look like crap.

Well, technically, practically every fan-made AMV is made out of pre-compressed footage

--

on the original subject --

If somebody actually thought there was something in my videos worth ripping, I wouldn't have a problem with it. (Well, I'd consider them crazy, but that's beside the point.) I don't attribute my videos to me anyway, so I can't really complain.

My opinion on using others' edited scenes: I just don't like the idea, and I can't see how you could rationalize it with anything but laziness.

[trythil]

[My opinion on using others' edited scenes: I just don't like the idea, and I can't see how you could rationalize it with anything but laziness.

Let me try to clarify that before somebody springs the "well, what about software component reuse, or mathematical theorems" argument:

IMHO, you can't compare such things and AMVs. The element of personal expression factors greatly into the latter, and it's here where I think using somebody else's work severely injures an AMV's artistic qualities.

This isn't to say that software engineering or mathematics -aren't- influenced by individual expression -- they most certainly are. However, the point of both of those disciplines is to further the perfection of both fields by building upon what has already been proven to be workable or correct.

The technical aspects of AMV editing could fall into this category -- certainly, it makes sense to spread around techniques that produce cleaner, more vivid video. However, artistically, I don't think this holds true. Everybody has their own unique style (I have yet to see two people that edit and composite exactly the same way), and that style is a signature that has tremendous impact on the artistic expression of the AMV. By using somebody's else's creation in your work, you destroy that expression.

I hope that made sense; I'm certainly not the most articulate person in the world.

[Rob Kenchu]

we have completely, %100 missed the point here. I'm talkin about just raw clips, not edited ones. If i have a long stretch of Kenshin fighting Saitou, and someone needs some of that fight, than if they ask me i'll let them use it. I'm not talking about "wow! that effect is real cool! i'll use that for my vid!", but even that is forgivable to a point! I just want people to be more understanding and less judgemental of what MOST OF US WERE WHEN WE STARTED!

[trythil]

we have completely, %100 missed the point here. I'm talkin about just raw clips, not edited ones.

I don't see a single phrase in your original post that has to do with "just using raw clips".

However...

Wording issues aside, it can be very difficult to tell just what is edited and what is not. It's not that rare these days to see footage that -looks- unedited, but in fact has undergone some extensive work.

Keep in mind that there's very few people who will condemn you if you ask and give credit before you take, be it an edited or raw clip. All I said is that I don't think it's a very good practice.

[iserlohn]

Well, my policy is this: if you email me and ask and I'm feeling nice (and you're being nice which is not as common as some would think), I'll either point people towards where they can get the clip for cheap (like a highly discounting etailer) or if they're desperate and asking nice and are making efforts to be friendly beyond wanting my footage, i'll offer a cd with my workclips. However, if you don't ask first and you just rip my AMV and I find out about it.....you don't want to be around.

[Rob Kenchu]

you people... did you animate the shows? hm? did you? did you go through all the time and effort required to make the original shows? no, we just piece it together with a song we didn’t write, sing or market. How can you be like this with stuff that isn’t even yours to begin with? Isn’t that just a little hypocritical?

not meaning to sound harsh, but come on now.

[Koopiskeva]

ok... this is turning ugly, much like a previous thread already had the discussion on this.. I think thats why it was taken off in the first place...

/me starts the dead body trail count..

[alternatefutures]

you people... did you animate the shows? hm? did you? did you go through all the time and effort required to make the original shows?

I actually come close there in my current vids (Light of Day and my yet-to-be-released work) In both of these I have a significant amount of original footage. So, the whole "isn't even yours to begin with" statement... sometimes it just doesn't work.

[MistyCaldwell]

you people... did you animate the shows? hm? did you? did you go through all the time and effort required to make the original shows? no, we just piece it together with a song we didn’t write, sing or market. How can you be like this with stuff that isn’t even yours to begin with? Isn’t that just a little hypocritical?

Yeah, I think this statement shows what this topic is really about.

There's no need to justify anything if you are going to do it anyway. Most people have their own set opinions about what is right and wrong about using other people's captured footage with or without using edits such as cuts, fades, overlays..etc.

You came here to discuss your opinion yes? Some people have said they don't agree and state their opinions back. Some people feel the only thing that makes an amv 'theirs' is the edits and appreciate some credit. Others could care less. Opinions around here sometimes resemble blunt painful objects that others use to beat each other over the head with...over...and over.....this thread looks cut out to be another one of that kind.


And to be truthful, in my post I wasn't even talking about using other people's amvs. I was talking about using downloaded footage in general. And that I think it looks crappy. For that reason alone, I would think it should be discouraged to do so....not forbidden. It just shows bad quality, but you can do it if you want.

Telling people if their names weren't in the credits of a show or they have no place to claim the amv as their own is a well-known around the amv community.

If you use someone else's video and they don't like it, the worst you can expect is some poison tainted hate mail from someone you don't even know. If you really lose sleep over it then perhaps you need a thicker skin. If someone takes pieces of your video without asking, write it off as a tax exempt donation for the poor (using the excuse stated earlier about money) and just ignore it though I do know it can be annoying.

In the words of the now MIA jbone, we can all just get over it.

[Katara]

Hello there, my handle is Katara, I form the other half of More Better Studios along with Rob who started this little thread which has garnered a bit more attention, a bit more NEGATIVE attention then it probably deserved. Most people have the wrong idea about this whole "Give Credit Where It's Due" Policy.

First of all Rob and I are part of a "newer" generation of AMV makers, we've been doing this shit for about 2 years now. Not quite old school, but not really newbies at this. When we first started out making vids, we struggled. We had no friggin' idea where to purchase a capture card, let alone what the damned thing was. DVDs were a bit out of our price range (in fact they still are sometimes) and the ONLY thing we had was other people's clips.

We started off using Windows Movie Maker, it's not something we're proud to admit, but a majority of you use it, and don't deny it damnit. Dragonball Z was the big thing back then, we did Dragonball Z vids, left and right, some good, some horrible. No one ever helped us out, we figured this crap out all by ourselves. As Rob and I became more skilled and got better programming (Premiere, various programs and techniques to get high quality clips) we never forgot the fact that we once were newbies at this, as were you all.

When More Better Studios came into existence around a year ago, we wanted to help out newer AMV makers, to share with them the expirience that we had to learn the HARD way. We hit upon the idea of not being total asses with our videos. Most sites have a strict "don't use my clips for anything you asshole" policy, but we wanted something different, something that you know, ENCOURAGED people, not deter them. AMV making is about making a vid that YOU like and Otakon Convention and the rest of the world be damned. It's not about winning awards or seeing who can have the flashiest vids. Alot of people have forgotten this, Rob and I want to revive it.

First of all we want to provide high quality vids for people that don't have access to such equipment. They're broke, or simply cannot purchase the equipment at this time for any number of reasons. It's easier to simply use clips from other AMVs and splice them together to form a new vid. Personally, Rob and I are honored to have people wanting to use our clips, we feel that if the quality looks that damned good to someone else, then all our toil in learning how to MAKE it look that good is worth it. If they want to use our clips, so be it, all we ask is a little credit. Let me address what appears to be the most major arguement of some of you people.

You seem to have this idea that adding transitions and various fades makes the vid legally "yours" or that somehow gives you some kind of right to demand WHAT is to be done with it. I know you worked hard to rip and covert that vid (I know trust me, I have entire shows on my computer, each DVD taking around 8-9 hours apiece to convert) but COME ON, be a little more lenient here.

Whenever I personally finish a vid and I go and SHARE it with people, then it's not just mine, I am freely distributing a video that I want people to enjoy, therefore it's not just "mine" it techincally belongs to everyone. The ONLY thing Rob or myself ask in return for using our clips in a vid, is that you just say in the vid or on your website, where you got the clips from. Thats it. We're not twisting your arm to do this stuff. It'd be nice if people obeyed the policy, but how many do or not is really up in the air at this point.

If someone emailed me asking me to use clips from my AMVs in their own vids my response would be, "Go for it and let me see it when your done." We want to see what they're doing with our clips, offer constructive criticism, offer encouragement, and hey, offer them a link from our site if we like the vid that much, maybe giving them a boost in both popularity and confidence.

AMV makers are currently a scattered lot, we need to be a bit more centralized. I'm afraid that attending Otakon or being a part of the Anime Webring isn't going to cut it, there should be a set guidelines that can help people become better AMV makers. Now i'm not calling them "rules" because rules can be easily made and broken, but guidelines are there for help, not to order you around. If you want to be nice about using our clips, we'll be nice to you, try to help you out, give you some links, help you develop your vids, etc. But should you be a total ass and use our vids without permission, then there would be a community response, no single email from one person. The AMV Community would be able to ban together and know that this person is a bastard who uses other people's clips and doesn't give any credit for them.

If someone wants to use a part from Rob's or my own vid, hey thats fine, we just want a plug for it. Free advertising really. Should a newbie AMV maker become very good at what they do, we'd like them to look favorably upon More Better Studios in the future and not think of us as a bunch of conservative AMV assholes who tried to hold them down.

Whether you love it or hate it, people will pirate your vids. Most of the time its done because they have little choice and really no other options, as I said from the story at the beginning, Rob and I have traveled this road, and we would have appreciated any help that would have been offered to us, but most AMV makers feel that they are "superior" to the rest of the AMV crowd, and therefore shun it.

Don't deny it damint, you all do it, when you see a vid that you don't like and roll your eyes and say, "MY vid is SO much better!"
Most AMV makers don't answer questions about their craft saying, "You have to learn yourself," meaning that if I suffered, you have to suffer.

One particular AMV maker wrote on his website about how if you didn't know what a certain convention was, you weren't a TRUE AMV maker. If being an AMV maker is all about winning contests, then its not really a hobby I'd like to engage in.

Most people got their panties in a knot about this policy, due to the fact that they don't want to share their clips from their vids. We're not talking about original source clips here, Rob and my own source clips are quite litterally gigs and number in the dozens. But if someone wants to use something from one of my completed music videos, then hey as long as they ask me or give me credit, I'm all for it.

Well folks, I hope I cleared up a few things for you, probably not, but what the hell, I never was very articulate.

Cheers,
Katara