"Piracy Policies"... Not me!

[paizuri]

Personally, Rob and I are honored to have people wanting to use our clips, we feel that if the quality looks that damned good to someone else, then all our toil in learning how to MAKE it look that good is worth it. If they want to use our clips, so be it, all we ask is a little credit. Let me address what appears to be the most major arguement of some of you people.

You seem to have this idea that adding transitions and various fades makes the vid legally "yours" or that somehow gives you some kind of right to demand WHAT is to be done with it.

Well, not to be a stickler about things, but video editing can be more than just a few transitions and fades. Innovative people are doing much more these days than merely slapping scenes together.

I think the majority of the people here (but I could be wrong) probably wouldn't mind TOO much if footage from their videos was used as long as they were credited for it. But I think it's just common courtesy to at least contact them and inform them of your intentions first. How would you feel if everyone was talking about this great new video and how the person that made it is a genius and then when you watch it you find out that all the "cool" parts were from your videos? Would you just keep quiet about it?

Obviously you have your own opinions about the way things should be. But so does everyone else. You can respect them or not as you please, but don't lump everyone into the same category based on 1 or 2 people.

[Katara]

Personally, if this great new vid uses my clips and is so good? I'd congratulate the person, if they made a better vid out of it then I did, then hey, maybe they got a certain talent that I don't have. I WANT to see vids made using my clips, but you have to face facts most of the time, people that use other peoples clips don't make vids that achieve massive recognition, the whole purpose of this, is to get people started in AMV making, not to make people who've been doing AMV making for years have another award under their belt.

If the person stiffed me over on credit for the clips, then I would get pissed, but its not like we're being unreasonable here. Rob and I are nice guys and we want to HELP people become AMV makers as well as refine and improve their craft. We want to form some kind of community with AMV makers because if someone does screw over another AMV maker by not giving him/her credit, then that person can be singled out and everyoen can know not to download or view their vids.

Cheers,
Katara

[Nightowl]

This is an interesting topic. Initially I wasn't going to respond, but then I started thinking... this is an argument that could go both ways.

For the record, yes, I would go haywire if someone used my bunny, as that's original animation. If someone used my bunny in their video without first asking me I would more than likely track that person down and do horrible things to his/her body. But that's a bit off topic.

Utilizing original motion graphic techniques such as split screen, massive compositing, and CGI are fast becoming staples in the AMV world. Some of these effects are so distinct that if they were used in another video, the entire community would know. Using a video that was already mentioned, what if someone found a video that used only footage from Vlad's "Transcending Love?" I know I would be upset if someone decided to use some of the special techniques I've used in videos.

Of course, the video quality would be terrible, as only I have the original masters. The only people who could possibly rip off most everyone's videos at a high quality would be quu or Waldo... now, we all know that quu's videos are all made from other people's footage, as he would never rip a DVD to save his life - but he's forgiven, as he's somewhat essential to three or four people in the community.

Anyway, back to what I was saying... I'm going to start using my own videos as examples - this isn't an ego thing, it's just that I don't want to speak for others. I would be mad if someone made use of the filter process I used in Triengel. This is mostly because the filter process is now a programmed filter utilized in Final Cut Pro and has been patented. Yes, you can do that. I did. If you program a filter that is unique enough you can do that - even if it uses other filters. Regardless, if I found Trigun footage out there someday with that same filter process, I would know it was ripped from my video, and I would know I hadn't given permission. There are some legal ramifications I won't go into here. I would be very upset if I found footage from that video used without so much as asking me (I would still say no). Lucky for me, everyone seems to think I edited using fansubs anyway - you see, I put grain in there, film grain, real film grain... this causes people to believe the footage is shitty. It was an artistic decision.

Okay, I'm stopping that train of thought... I've been up for three days editing and I'm quite exhausted. Hence, the rambling.

I would be just as upset if someone used Utena footage from Love is Flowers, as nearly every frame has been altered utilizing split screen. And if someone used my bunny, my dancing CGI bunny, ooh boy, yeah, I would be severely pissed off. I made that bunny from scratch! I love her goddamnit! I have a RIGHT to request no one use the footage of her! DAMNIT!

Now, I'm getting to the point. I swear.

After all that crap about legalities and bunnies, I've kept one thing in mind: we are using other people's footage. We're using an artist's animation. What if someone used original footage from an AMV in the same regard? Rather than "I'm making a video using Evangelion," it would be "I'm making a video using Brad Demoss' interpretation of Evangelion." I suppose I'm going a bit deeper into the topic than someone who would use the footage might, but still, you never know.

And whenever this topic comes up, I can't help but think... what if someone used footage that had simply been cut? No transitions, no effects, just cut footage put to music. I know I had a total of... I think four transitions in my FLCL video. I don't think I would be able to tell if someone used my footage. I mean, unless you watermark your videos, or you're an idiot and have an obscene amounts of special effects, how can you tell? I don't think that's a statement so much as a question - I really want to know!

Blah, I've typed about this way too much, and as no one really cares about my videos and only one person has ever asked if he could use my footage, I don't think my opinion really matters in this particular case.

Personally, I don't like the idea of someone using another person's footage. One of the great things about learning how to edit is, when you begin, learning to edit with limitations. If all you have is KOR and the only song you own is Demon Knight, make it work. That's what editing is all about. After awhile you may obtain some new source, move ahead with that. Maybe you'll get good, get work, then you can start buying anime. Have only three episodes of Cowboy Bebop and they're Divx? Worse yet, the only song you have is Dirty Laundry? Make the footage look like crappy TV video footage and make a statement against today's media conglomorates, or some such thing. You can do anything with what you've got, you don't need someone else's footage. If you're downloading AMVs in the first place, I KNOW it's very easy to download episodes of certain series off of Kazaa. So do that. Work within your limitations.

Use your imagination, kids.

-N

p.s. I didn't mean to write that much. I'm awfully tired and I'm unsure as to whether or not I will even remember this post. Oh, and that bit about quu, that was satire, for those of you who didn't get it (you know who you are... I don't, but you do).

Did I make points for both sides reasonably well? I hope so.

[Rozard]

I have a new god, and his name is Nightowl    

[Katara]

As to your bunny, its very cute and all that, and if you drew and animated it, then it is YOURS, no one else's. But we have to face facts here, the Anime we use is NOT ours, nor will it ever be. The song, unless it was written, or sung by you, is not yours either. Should you have had SOME part in drawing, creating, animating, the anime, its not legally yours.

I understand that people feel that their vid is indeed theirs, hey, I feel the same way. But I also accept the fact that people are going to rip your vid, whether you like it or not. You can either bitch about it and become an asshole in the eyes of people at large, or you can try to help them out, and maybe get some free advertising out of it.

Rob and I have been video editing for two years now, and the lack of help or encouragement we recieved discouraged us. Together we've been able to produce roughly 60-70 AMVs and damnit all if we're not proud of each and every one of them. People use pretty effects, wierd transitions, and the like for the simple reason that no one else has used them, but in time those effects are going to get old and everyone and their mother is going to be using them. But the whole point of the policy is to merely try to help out newbie AMV makers, theres a whole bunch of people who have only seen Dragonball Z or Pokemon, and when they try to make vids that are none DBZ or whatever, they may not always have the means to get those clips, the only places they can get these clips from are from established AMV makers, and we'd like to offer them a helping hand in it, the only payment we ask in return is that they mention us or they ask us beforehand.

Cheers,
Katara, Slayer of the mighty dragon known as ignorance.

[FurryCurry]

Well, you've asked your question, said your bit, and gotten a sampling of responses.

Now you know how most people around here are going to react, so deal with it. If you want permission to use something, or ever feel you should ask, get in touch with the creator personally. I can pretty much guarantee you won't have very many people showing up in this thread to give you blanket permission to use anything you want to from any vid they've ever made.

Given that there is little anyone can do to stop you, aside from very special cases like Nightowl, and you've pretty much said you plan to go ahead and rip footage anyway, what are you guys whining about?

There is also one well made point that I haven't seen either one of you two reply to yet, and that was the suggestion to use downloaded fansubbed footage to make your vids with. ANY p2p service is going to have a decent mix of anime available on it, why not use that? A lot of people here do, when the commercial release isn't available yet, or they can't afford it.

There's a thread in amv announcements on the first page regarding a new Witch Hunter Robin video that was released. AFAIK, that show is still airing in japan, and there are no DVD's of it for sale anywhere yet. Still, someone made a (very good) vid from fansubs (or raws).

If you are as lazy about the production of your videos as you are about getting ahold of footage to make them with, I have absolutely no interest in seeing anything you make.

This has turned into nothing but a troll thread at this point, quit bitching and move on.

[paizuri]

You know, I posted to this thread without reading all of the prior posts and if I had read them, I'd have just done this from the get-go, so go read Misty Caldwell's post because she makes sense.

Katara, Slayer of the mighty dragon known as ignorance.

Rumors of its demise have long been exaggerated.

[paizuri]

You know, I posted to this thread without reading all of the prior posts and if I had read them, I'd have just done this from the get-go, so go read Misty Caldwell's post because she makes sense.

Well, I mean, I think every post in this thread made sense, but Misty's is the first post in here to specifically and completely address your [implied] arguments. After that we start to get redundant.

[MistyCaldwell]

It would seem the majority of amv makers here stumbled upon amvs before ever setting eyes on video editing equipment.

Not everyone starts out this way though. Some people here knew video editing up and down before ever making an amv. I am not quite that experienced, but I was editing linear 2 years before ever making an amv.

My point is, the help you may have wanted when starting out is out there...rather here. There are guides written by the experienced. Maybe 2 years ago a-m-v.org was a new web site, but there are still editing guides available all over the place. Most of them are a bit technical, but this is a technical hobby.

The main thing about your arguement that annoys me is how you want for there to be a mass share opinion among makers about their clips. But then if someone does not give you credit they should be shunned by the entire community. Now isn't that a bit hypocritical?

No one does own an amv after they make it. Respect for the individual creator is the only thing one has on their side against other people taking an entire amv, putting it to a different song and calling it their own. Even if they give credit, does it then make it ok? How is a beginner going to learn if they don't try original ideas? If they merely practiced doing such things then would that be alright...and if they didn't list it here as their own creation?

No, most people here aren't out to win contests (my personal opinion) but they DO want their videos to be seen. Winning is a nice perk, but amv making is essentially to make other people happy is it not?

Why share a video if it's not to take an emotion you felt and express it through editing so someone else can know what you saw, in your own mind and they can laugh, cry, or just sit spell bound while watching your video.

THAT is what I thought the point was. THAT is why people don't like having their edits used. They don't own it and they have no way of chaining it to the floor unless they don't release it.

CAN you do it? Of course you can use others clips and most of the time it happens without permission. But is this arguement about using clips or cutting up other's amvs? It isn't very clear anymore.

In a more realistic way...conventions are the best way to get your amv seen. Large ones are the best to be exact. Those cons gets a couple hundered entires and have to pick the ones they feel are best. Videos that use a lot of pre-compressed ( in avi, mpeg, divx...blah blah....) footage would, imho, have a hard time competing against a dvd ripped yuv clip.

To get your video shown, the sound and video quality has to be good. The concept would benefit *tremendously* by being at least somewhat original. THOSE videos get shown at conventions. It's not about winning, but it is about competing in an increasingly technical field. Looks do matter here. Conventions do matter here too, exposure, not prizes. Because that is what the purpose is...to be seen and heard. It's hard to get that with a wmv video made out of other people's footage, edits or no. ( Still waiting on bogo to call my bluff)

If some people seemed snobbish to you, ignore them. I wouldn't have sat here and wrote out this long post if I thought you guys were some kids who didn't want to make amvs and to just start flame wars.

Based on your opinion of things being so bad...and you say you've been making amvs for 2 years, it seems you have just been reading up on the wrong people.

Conventions like AWA accept everything into their exposition and it's a big thing there...with lots of exposure for an amv maker. If you'd go to at least one convention go to that one and you can see what the people who make these are really like....as in not self worshipping copyright stamping meanies. Just fun loving anime geeks who just want some intellectual property claims to the things that rob them of sleep, food, and an active social life come convention amv deadlines every year

[MistyCaldwell]

Well, I mean, I think every post in this thread made sense, but Misty's is the first post in here to specifically and completely address your [implied] arguments. After that we start to get redundant.

Oops Now I've gone and written another one....