Do aged AMVs still hold weight in 2009?

[outlawed]

the bedazzlement you receive from effects is diluted whenever another video strolls along with similar effects. Piano keys, flashing bars, static masks -- they were awesome when we first saw them, but then when we saw another video with the same effects, we go "oh, I've seen that already".

So far I believe this is the most accurate response to the question raised. Also, personally I believe it's less a matter of effects vs no-effects, and more upon the lines of, why add effects when you don't need to? Sure, some may see it as making the video pretty or unique, but honestly, for me it's like they've made a perfectly delicious cake, then go "oh hey, I'm just gonna shit all over this because nobody else has."

My opinion was the same as qyll's regarding effects based videos. If the only thing to your concept is eye candy then it's not going to stand the test of time. The film Bullitt won the 1969 oscar for best film editing. Why is this movie still relevant or viewable today? Why is it remembered? Hint. It doesn't have to do with just the film editing.

AMVs are the same. I have now re-read this entire thread. I'm the only one who is talking about concept here. That's part of the reason I made that opinionted jibe about what you don't see AMV creators critique. But let's try to keep on track here.

My opinion on these so-called older memorable vids people mention is that it the big factor has nothing to do with the editing. Solid execution is needed yes. But the editing methods chosen have little bearance to me other than it worked. You are not remembering it for the editing you are remembering it for the full product. You may also remember it for meta-reasons like wow I was first getting into anime and this introduced me to show X and it just blew me away. It may be because the AMV was released at a particular time also.

If the only product the video is selling is some characters masked in, particle effects, or just solid editing then it will not stand the test of time once everyone else starts doing the same thing and pumping those vids out. What makes a hit record a hit record? People still listen to old songs.

What about Metro's True Fiction? To me this is a technically driven concept and while not very old it is still standing the test of time and probably will so for awhile. This is a testament to just how much time was spent on this project. I don't think anyone has surpassed it yet. But would that video have the replay value at cons or for us in general if everyone else could do technical vids like that? To me once that happens then the audience reacts like this: "give me more of the same with new shows. Don't need to see the old AMVs like that just show me some new footage kthnx bai"

This could be the answer to our problems.
http://tinyurl.com/ll7y9q

[Knowname]

But let's try to keep on track here.

lol exactly what I was thinking but if you'd like to continue this and not just broadcast our thoughts we can do so via pm's.

But I would like to finish up here with this, while WAY ot I was pretty much just trying to justify the editor's stance via my participation in things like announcement threads (more the unpopular ones than the friend frenzys ), review sessions, giving out ops and reading others, and such. Maybe it's an old concept BUT... and wrapping up with something that really matters... EVERYBODY thinks their amvs stand the test of time. I doubt anybody who's video is released (and certainly ANNOUNCED) here wants their video to be noticed and feels they have something to say. That's all I was saying... and, actually a few ppl brought up the idea of concept (though they didn't DIRECTLY relate it) Nya-chan first pointed out how much time is spent on each video (to which I went on a tirade about lol) And Vax (or Vivaldi...) than repeated what I said in a clearer fashion. Too me, that's all about concept and the time spent developing it.

OK, I digress :/

[blabbler]

When working on an zero-effects AMV it's not so much you're doing less work than effects AMVs, more alone the lines of more thinking.

but that is just bullshit.

i think one of the factors that determines if fx are going to date is the quality of the design. e.g. douggie's corazon is still going to look cool at some arbitrary point in the future because of the clean, stylish compositions, appropriate dynamics, use of colour, etc. in contrast koop's twilight/euphoria/skittles were pushing the technical boundaries within the amv scene at the time they were released, and deserve the praise they garnered because of this - but dated quickly because of the (relatively) poor composition and so forth.

story is king though imo, if your effects are telling the story they can be completely half-assed, ugly as sin and still work perfectly.

ps when i say "story" i would include "conveying the intended emotion" in the case of a montage that might not necessarily have a plot or garden fence dancing in the moonlight und-

[godix]

While most AMV creators might make use of discussion of their AMV they really don't care to hear you discuss concept. Which is generally why people don't do it. After all who wants to basically be told whether indirect or directly "why the heck did you make this." There is a large difference between examining concept and execution.

I don't think the problem is lack of interest in the topic, but rather a lack of balls. Bitch about the AR being wrong and you're fairly safe, either it is wrong or it isn't. There's no real room for opinion in there. Bitch about a concept being boring, then you got an argument going on. Concept is full of opinion with few hard concrete rules. Most people do not seem comfortable with their opinions, or perhaps a more accurate way of saying it, most people don't seem to be comfortable stating an opinion different than the community in general. The concept topic comes up every now and then and it almost never goes anywhere because you can't say 'the concept was bad' and be obviously right like bitching about AR.

[Zelkiiro]

@Topic: An epic AMV is an epic AMV, regardless of the year in which it was made.

[Bauzi]

Yes, I do think that there are classic amvs that can pass the test of time. Well not in every aspect (video quality etc.), but they can score with other things. The main things to score are actually editing and concept, because... there wasn't that much possibility in effects, right? Of course there are good effectfull videos from the past too.

(at least I try now to post some subjective examples for my categories)

Editing:
In my opinion the editing in classic amvs sometimes suites me much more. There are no boundaries like strict beat sync. There is often a clear focus on flow and atmosphere. They don't look that controlled like they are today. If you watch commercial music videos, you want notice sync or at least not that much sync like you do in amvs. Commercial music videos can score with original (-> unique) footage that was just made for the song. In amvs it often happens that you see the whole footage over and over again. Of course the effects are top notch in most commercial music videos, but they are very well executed and the most important thing: They stick to a concept.

Mando Diao's vid to Dance With Somebody
http://tinyurl.com/mpj3p4
Watch it in HQ and have a deep look into details. Do you notice something? It's often flawed, it's often cheesy and it (seams) to be bad executed. That's the style of the video and that's what it makes great.


Digitalism's vid to the song Pogo
http://tinyurl.com/4xym22
Is there sync? Hell no. Is there style? Definatly and that's what makes the video interessting. It definatly can score with style and not with things like sync. Of course it's not everybody's taste

Foo Fighters' vid to Pretender
http://tinyurl.com/4g5os4
Hell... The editing is so simpel, but the images can create such an energy and atmosphere! That's well placed scenes and timing.

I do believe that there also lies perfection in some older videos. Have a look at Engel again. Personally I really can't find any real editing mistake in it. Can you?

Hell even a friend who is totally not into anime, internet and stuff, knows the video and likes it oO

I also miss the style of the classic comedy videos from 2000-2003. I just can only find them in Doki Doki's works =|


Other video with simpel, but yet great editing:


Concept:
It can be a big point to score. The problem here is that not everybody gets the story behind a video. There are freaks out there (just like me) who write pages of information about the concept and thoughts behind it, but I have to agree that if a concept is good exectuted you won't need to introduce a viewer to it media beside the video itself. Too bad that not every viewer has watched the anime or listens to the lyrics of a song.

An easy way of concept (if you ask me) is comedy. Simpel comedy videos. The purpose of these videos is won simpel reaction: Make the viewer laugh. I think you can all agree with me when I say that it is much easier to make somebody laugh with a comedy video instead of makeing him cry or feel bad with a serious drama video. That's why the mainstream audience at conventions loves those comedy videos and often reward them with viewer choice awards. Such comedy videos are remarkable to them because they provoked an impression or had a simpel impact on them: humor.

Concept... Hell there can be great concepts! However they tend to be overdone. Come on guys. Linkin Park's In The End and a simpel anime can make an awesome concept. It's just a simpel one and we dislike it because it was done so often with pretty bad videos. Have a look at YouTube. There are often videos that just have that much clicks and view due to the concept behind them. Sometimes they're pretty bad exectuted, but the wide audience does like and reward them with attention. Ok sometimes the concept wasn't well exectuted, because they like the song anime combination ("OMFG this song fits perfect! 5 stars + fav + subscribe ").

Example for good concepts in classic amvs:



Effects:
It's hard to outstand here when you compare it to new amvs. I think the way to score it to make something unique with effort, design and style. I NEVER saw a clone of Naruto/Bleach Technique Beat or something that addopted the style in amvs. Do you know why? Because it's damn hard to use this style. You need a hell of a good feeling for design if you ask me. Look at the amv Spoil... It uses often canned effects and tutorials. That's easy to remake and that's why there are so many videos in grunge style out there. This style is often so easy to adopt. However when it comes to real quality amvs hardly reach the level of -Good for Nothing- works (Project Relic) in thermes of kick ass execution and quality. Thx god he sent me some betas of his unreleased stuff

Here are the amvs that still have great effects and they where made in a time period when good effects weren't that easy to make or "obtain" threw plug ins:

(also a good example for kick ass editing)





Final Thoughts:
There are always a tons of new amv makers and viewers comeing. If you remeber your beginings you will notice that a lot of more simpler videos had a deep impression on you all. Classic amvs can still score for this kind of people. They will only die out if nobody shows them these amvs or if they don't find it, but as said: I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there who will have fun with them. The sand of time and the rising bar of the viewers expectations can make them look quite old and maybe obsolete, but anyway there will always be masterpieces who will survive every editing and effects trend.

Don't forget that the quality of a video always is in the eye of the beholder. Yes there are a lot of videos that we, as advanced editors, will call garbage, but there will also be people who will enjoy them and I better don't start talking about the artistic value in amvs ;D

Please be honest: Did you read threw all this? I might want to make a real article out of it or something "more".

[Mroni]

I like Old school and new school videos. The most unforgivable thing to me is leaving subtitles in a video. If you guys want examples of crap videos just run on over to youtube. And when you are talking old school you could divide that into stuff made with computers and stuff made with vcrs and editing decks. YOu dont need a fancy editing program to make a good video look at some of Duane johnsons stuff or Caffeine ecconium.

Mr Oni

[Phantasmagoriat]

Personally, I believe a good AMV is any video that can invoke a desired emotion in the viewer.

Clearly there is no fundamental link between my ideology of good amv's and technology/effects/advancement,
so surely aged AMVs still hold weight in 2009, as long as they meet the above criteria.

[Knowname]

OK now we're simply getting into the European vs. the American taste... cuz many of these are just GAWDAWEFULL!! (IMO ;P)

[Eek-1]

...Did you read threw all this? I might want to make a real article out of it or something "more".

Put it in amv newsletter. We hardly get any these days.