The Lip Flapper : Volume 11.2 - Contests

[DriftRoot]

This topic of trolling is an interesting one and I found the judges'/coordinators' viewpoint about putting on a good show not all that surprising, even if it's not one you see admitted openly very often...something that might be nice to see corrected. When the contest's stated purpose differs from the standards used to select entries, that's where I think there's a problem and hard feelings start to really percolate.

I guess the question comes down to the purpose of these contests, if you're going to start debating whether anti-trolling policies protect and encourage newer editors or just undermine the entertainment value of the contest itself. If you want a pure, entertainment-driven contest, then the doors are probably wide open to "trolls." If you want something else, then the doors can shut as tight as you want them. Regardless of which way it goes, someone out there will always have a different opinion about who should have gotten through those doors.

To address the topic of fairness to new editors from a different standpoint: I feel I'm in somewhat of an unusual position, in that I was a new editor who managed to produce an AMV which won awards at all but one of the five cons in which it was entered (Sakura-Con, Anime Boston, Tekkoshocon, AX). My purpose in entering was simply to entertain as many people as possible with this thing that I'd made, I wasn't after awards or notoriety or anything else. I also entered during a fairly short time frame of just a few months, without having any real idea of what the result was going to be (I had only desperate hope that I'd even make the finals). I recall being a bit fearful I would be labeled as a troll afterwards - while that was not my intention and I don't feel this is what I did, it still bothered me at the time. There were some other videos/editors on the con circuit which were getting a bad reputation as trolls, and I wondered how the average person could tell the difference between my intentions and theirs. Trolling can be an extremely subjective term. *

But actually - and this Lip Flapper discussion is the first time I've realized it - isn't this what the AMV community WOULD ideally want an aspiring new editor to do? Getting into the finals/winning awards at several big cons? I'm proof you don't have to be a veteran, popular editor to achieve this. It's not the name or the experience that counts, it's what you produce! Yeah, it's tough going up against really good, experienced editors...but that's sort of the nature of the game at that level. If you want to compete on that stage, you've got to bring your best game to the table, and if it's not good enough, well...how is that other peoples' fault? Get mad about it! Get inspired! Prove that you've got what it takes! Work your ass off! Enter a smaller contest!

Is this that generation gap thing, where some kids these days are so indoctrinated into the "everybody's a winner/special" mindset that they can't handle truly competing for something on the basis of actual skill? The older I get the more I seem to notice this is a state of affairs that actually exists. The older I get the more I seem to reference the older I get, too. -_-

*Throw in a littlelot of extra hot water I got myself into because of some inappropriate/offhand/misinterpreted comments I made about another AMV around this time, and I was fairly convinced the AMV community 'round here thought I was evil incarnate. Some still might.

[BasharOfTheAges]

To clarify my previous sentiment, I don't think it's really the contest coordinator's job to police it... If some prescreeners let it tip their bias against it, so be it. It really should be a personal show of decency and restraint though, and not mandated by rules. That only leads to other, smaller cons being punished by not having good entries because their creators want to save them from the big cons that won't let them in if they win.

@driftroot Your motives might not be clear at that moment in time, but six months down the road if you're still sending the video everywhere and it's not by request of someone begging for entries, you're tolling it.
EDIT - excluding, of course, sending everything you make to AWA expo, because everyone does that.

[Kireblue]

EDIT - excluding, of course, sending everything you make to AWA expo, because everyone does that.

exactly

[Radical_Yue]

My personal opinion on "contest trolling":

While I'm all for giving the fans and con goers the best show and the best videos should be allowed to enter, it's also a contest, there needs to be standards and guidelines that are fair for all the those who enter. If you want to show the best videos the hobby has to offer, don't do it in a contest format, just show them to the audience. The moment you put "contest" in there, it's no longer just about entertaining the fans, it's about the editors as well. There needs to be a balance between the two.

That's my two cents at least.

yes

and

To clarify my previous sentiment, I don't think it's really the contest coordinator's job to police it... If some prescreeners let it tip their bias against it, so be it. It really should be a personal show of decency and restraint though, and not mandated by rules. That only leads to other, smaller cons being punished by not having good entries because their creators want to save them from the big cons that won't let them in if they win.

yes

[TritioAFB]

EDIT - excluding, of course, sending everything you make to AWA expo, because everyone does that.

I don't do it
I prefer new stuff

But for example at my case, I'm very selective about the Cons. For example, I don't send stuff to Anime Boston, nor Anime Expo.
Things change when International Cons comes to scene, but I still keep the same policy. For example, Big Contest nor any contest from amvnews don't call my attention. But I'll be willing to submit something to Japan Expo or the AKROSS Con, since I spent more time in those communities, and seemed to understand the structure and the purpose of those Cons.

The point is: Isn't the purpose of the amvs to entertain? The policy here is that the video should be enough entertaining to be declared winner, no matter if it's award-winning or not. And, of course if the video looks decent. It's not like you can make any kind of video, submit it and then expect to be winner if the whole clip doesn't look like an amv

[Diegao]

Really great reading, some interesting thoughts around here.

[AngelDragoon]

"[something]...else."

Ending got cut off there. XD; Still, interesting incite from everyone. Definitely an enjoyable read.

[JaddziaDax]

While everyone goes off about trolling, I'm actually going to talk about improving the contest entering experience. :<

OMG, AngelDragoon hit the nail on the head with confirmation communication! Lack of confirmation has RUINED conventions for me! It majorly sucks to travel across the country only to find out that your video didn't make it in for whatever reason during the convention. (Yes, I'm still holding a grudge.)

I know coordinators have lives, and might not have time to write hundreds of emails, but how hard is it really to write "Sorry your video didn't make finals due to _______. We appreciate your entry and better luck next year!" and press send? Or if the video has an instant disqualifier (subtitles/dub audio/whatever) to send them a note stating something like "I'm afraid your video doesn't follow the rules, as I see your video contains _______. If you can fix this issue and resubmit, it might have a better chance at getting shown during the contest."

I'm not saying to "hold the editor's hand" or to even link them guides. That's not the coordinator's job to teach people how to improve, but a bit of communication as to weather or not they are in the contest, and why they aren't would improve the experience. I'm more likely to enter contests where the coordinator is available to the entrants to answer questions, confirm videos, and explain what went wrong in the case of disqualification BEFORE the convention.

It's a shame that some conventions can't work out an overflow slot, because I believe that would relieve a lot of angst too.
~~~~~~

As for trolling, I used to have a personal policy of "only three contests" per video (AWA Expo aside). But since I've not really been entering many contests lately, I guess I've not really been sticking to that rule either. Essentially I've only been entering lately if people tell me they have a shortage of entries, or if a specific friend nags me, or if I'm going to show up at the convention.

I kind of fit into the pool of people who think, the best show for the audience is best, but I can understand seeing how frustrating it is to see specific videos win over and over and over again. Unfortunately at some conventions they can't work out an overflow/showcase, so the contest really is the only place to "get your video shown".

[Radical_Yue]

OMG, AngelDragoon hit the nail on the head with confirmation communication! Lack of confirmation has RUINED conventions for me! It majorly sucks to travel across the country only to find out that your video didn't make it in for whatever reason during the convention. (Yes, I'm still holding a grudge.)

I know coordinators have lives, and might not have time to write hundreds of emails, but how hard is it really to write "Sorry your video didn't make finals due to _______. We appreciate your entry and better luck next year!" and press send? Or if the video has an instant disqualifier (subtitles/dub audio/whatever) to send them a note stating something like "I'm afraid your video doesn't follow the rules, as I see your video contains _______. If you can fix this issue and resubmit, it might have a better chance at getting shown during the contest."

I'm not saying to "hold the editor's hand" or to even link them guides. That's not the coordinator's job to teach people how to improve, but a bit of communication as to weather or not they are in the contest, and why they aren't would improve the experience. I'm more likely to enter contests where the coordinator is available to the entrants to answer questions, confirm videos, and explain what went wrong in the case of disqualification BEFORE the convention.

It actually kinds surprises me that more conventions don't do this.
I'm AMV staff working directly under the coordinator for Nan Desu Kan and this is what I did last year when we received well over 200+ entries.

If you open up submissions early enough you'll get maybe 1-3 entries a day with small spikes here and there. The majority of the entries are just fine as long as your rules aren't insane so they confuse the entrants. For the "ok to go" entries, a simple copy/pasta email along the lines of "We received your entry, it's in our database, yadda yadda yadda..." works fine.

Any entries that have problems would get replies like this:

Thank you for your submission to Nan Desu Kan's 2011 AMV Contest!

We apologize for the delay in the confirmation letter, but be assured, your entry has been received and has been entered into our database.

After reviewing your entry, we have found that there may be some technical details you might like to address to better your chances of making it into the finals and having your video played at the convention. Please review the contest rules: http://ndkdenver.org/activities/amvs/contest-rules

Issues:
- Video Quality
- Resolution/Aspect Ratio

Feel free to send a resubmission or reply to this email if you have any questions.

^ That's what we'd send out for videos that had correctable problems.
Or a different variation of the same email detailing why the video would be disqualified (subtitles, offensive material, stolen footage, etc...)

I would personally reply to every single entry with an email like this. It took a maximum of 20 minutes out of my day to download, check and email people.

It helped weed out serious entrants from those who just wanted one of our awesome AMV contest badges. Editors who were developing their skills contacted me for help, corrected their problems and sent in solid entries. It was beneficial for both the editors and the con. In my opinion, if you're not willing to take that extra little step for the people who are supporting your convention, you should step down and find someone else who is willing to.

That being said, submit to Nan Desu Kan! Submission page will be up soon