I just have to know...

[JaddziaDax]

what do you do after you've already seen it? not say anything. I'd rather have any comment than no comment.

When you say "why waste your energy" that's exactly what I expect you should do: not comment. That way you can conserve all that precious energy for your editing or masturbating or whatever it is you need it for.

I wouldn't like one of the comments you think the Org gives or you think that AN gave though, but they dont/didn't give anything like that.

I have no clue what this sentence is attempting to say. Please clarify.

(editors should get their own ideas)

I'm picking on this because you keep repeating it.... So every good editor that has come out of this community somehow pulled all the greatness out of their butts? the guides on this site are for nothing and a complete waste of time to put together let alone read? no one should try to help anyone? Meta and theory discussion is all a waste of time? all because people should "come up with their own ideas" as you put it.

Then it must be a waste of time to leave your "criticism" too since they are supposed to come up with it ALL ON THEIR OWN.

Imho: If you cant back up your opinions with reasons, then you are not worth listening to. Being vague is completely unhelpful and just goes to show just how much you don't care, so why should the editor care about what you have to say?

Obviously there is a basic standard in this hobby (at least on this site) or else the guides and help forums wouldn't exist.

Once again, I'm not talking about "back-seat editing" I'm talking about giving small nudges towards the basic standard of what makes a "good" amv.

(THAT'S TOO MUCH to be a standard comment)

That is not just a "standard comment". It was never meant to be one. It's a CRITIQUE. I'm not talking about quick/standard comments comments, I'm talking about criticism. The OP asked why people can't take criticism. It seems to me it's because most of the people in those examples from their site, don't know how to give it so that a person will be more accepting of it.

They don't even know how to poke to see if the person is going to be accepting... Giving warnings about being "brutally honest" is just a warning ,in my opinion, that this person is going to troll. I'm surprised that the guy would go for it, though he just might be that inexperienced with the internet in general. Maybe he is just that naive.

Besides you could take any section of that entire critique and turn it into a "standard comment" to use as bait. If the person bites, then go into more detail, if not, then leave them be.

He just couldn't take the criticisms given to him, and i doubt he would have taken the criticisms you "gave" to him.

Actually both of those guys in the linked seemed fairly receptive, until everyone in the thread started bashing and trolling giving the same vague comments over and over again. I don't know what thread you read, but that's what I saw.

Besides if the guy is going to argue that his subtitles NEED to be in his video then it's truely a waste of time to argue with him at this point, and you are doing nothing but creating more drama for yourself by arguing.

[gotegenks]

what do you do after you've already seen it? not say anything. I'd rather have any comment than no comment.

When you say "why waste your energy" that's exactly what I expect you should do: not comment. That way you can conserve all that precious energy for your editing or masturbating or whatever it is you need it for.

ahh, i won't comment your stuff then if you're not a fan of..."comments," But most people are so i'ma take my chances.

I wouldn't like one of the comments you think the Org gives or you think that AN gave though, but they dont/didn't give anything like that.

I have no clue what this sentence is attempting to say. Please clarify.

you just made up a comment that neither the people on the Org give or even most of the people on AN give and used that to prove that long critiques and majorly nice short comments are the way to go. I never supported people saying "thisisshit" or "thisfuckensucks go die you untalented piece of crap" or anything like that.

(editors should get their own ideas)

I'm picking on this because you keep repeating it.... So every good editor that has come out of this community somehow pulled all the greatness out of their butts? the guides on this site are for nothing and a complete waste of time to put together let alone read? no one should try to help anyone? Meta and theory discussion is all a waste of time? all because people should "come up with their own ideas" as you put it.

Then it must be a waste of time to leave your "criticism" too since they are supposed to come up with it ALL ON THEIR OWN.

you guys just told him everything that is wrong with his video, and gave him HARDLY ANY POINTERS ON HOW HE COULD FIX IT. How I would review this video:-undeniably long critique-

I only repeated it because you just made up crap and passed it off as if it was all in your first post Like how You say you only give that level of critique when asked. You plainly said "you guys don't know how to critique, this is how i would do it if i were you" well what do you say before they ask? You "poke" them but you never criticized their ability to "poke." You might have had a brainfart or something but you pretty much said "you should have written something long and detailed like this without being provoked" and so i said that you shouldn't set that as the standard because it's too much work to do unprovoked for every video you see or even every video you comment on.
You also plainly said that the problem with their critiques was that they didn't tell editors how to fix it, but anybody who's even a little critical of their own work could take the negative comment like "the scene selection didn't work, the lipsync was a little messy at some parts" and rewatch the video and figure out themselves what they meant and how to fix it. I know editors don't pull stuff out of their ass that was bad wording on my part. Editors can get ideas out of comments that don't blatantly say "do this instead" so for that reason i say it's not and it shouldn't be required to plainly say what you should do. It's appreciated and welcome, but not required. If nudged to explain further, it could start to get rude not to give tips but before being nudged, i see no obligation to write out suggestions for every video i wanna comment on. The reason being is that an editor that wants to edit is probably capable of (at the very least) ripping someone else off, which i don't consider healthy or good practice, but it is a method by which they get their own ideas. it's not really their idea, like i said bad wording.

Imho: If you cant back up your opinions with reasons, then you are not worth listening to. Being vague is completely unhelpful and just goes to show just how much you don't care, so why should the editor care about what you have to say?

Just because you don't state all your reasons with your first comment doesn't mean you don't have them.
Here's the process i see: Make shoddy video>recieve criticism that only has to do with what's bad and why it's bad> rewatch video with that in mind (seeing it from a different point of view) > see how it was bad that you might not have seen before > fix it. or if you still don't see what the person was talking about, ask them about it. In your case, they would recieve plenty of information to not only inform them fully of what you were talking about, but also ideas on how they can do what they did wrong better. The editor should care what you have to say anyway because the commenter is part of his audience, and as stated earlier in this thread, even people that don't edit can give valid opinions. If they can fully articulate the emotion it gave them (or lack thereof) then it's valid. They don't even need reasons for their opinion to be valid unless you're just stuck up. If they don't have reasons, and you can't see what they're talking about, then their opinion is easily dismissable, and that's not a problem, but i still consider their opinions valid as long as they can articulate what their opinion is (good, bad, horrible, great)

Obviously there is a basic standard in this hobby (at least on this site) or else the guides and help forums wouldn't exist.

Once again, I'm not talking about "back-seat editing" I'm talking about giving small nudges towards the basic standard of what makes a "good" amv.

On this site, there is a higher standard than most (although it's not so high as to need to give something good about a video everysingletime unprovoked) and on AN there's not really any amv standards so you can't hold them to our (or your) standards.

(THAT'S TOO MUCH to be a standard comment)

That is not just a "standard comment". It was never meant to be one. It's a CRITIQUE. I'm not talking about quick/standard comments comments, I'm talking about criticism. The OP asked why people can't take criticism. It seems to me it's because most of the people in those examples from their site, don't know how to give it so that a person will be more accepting of it.

They don't even know how to poke to see if the person is going to be accepting... Giving warnings about being "brutally honest" is just a warning ,in my opinion, that this person is going to troll. I'm surprised that the guy would go for it, though he just might be that inexperienced with the internet in general. Maybe he is just that naive.

Besides you could take any section of that entire critique and turn it into a "standard comment" to use as bait. If the person bites, then go into more detail, if not, then leave them be.

Person1: those editors don't seem to be able to take criticism ("the act of passing judgment on something based on any of its merits")

You: You guys didn't even leave criticisms ("2 page analytical essay") This is how you should have done it (even though you were not provoked in the manner i'm gonna specify that i am before i write something like this) : [2 page analytical essay]

Me: 2 page analytical essays are not required of critical comments ("comments that perform the act of passing judgment on something based on any of its merits")

You: I never said they were! I don't even leave those unless they ask for them.

Short/Quick comments can be criticism too. It's not the length that defines the type of comment. Seems like you define criticism like an "OP" here, where it's usually longer than most comments and more detailed and has only one form for us to fill out to give an "Opinion," The people on AN were leaving standard comments, and you said it was wrong and that they should leave long critiques like you.

He just couldn't take the criticisms given to him, and i doubt he would have taken the criticisms you "gave" to him.

Actually both of those guys in the linked seemed fairly receptive, until everyone in the thread started bashing and trolling giving the same vague comments over and over again. I don't know what thread you read, but that's what I saw.

Besides if the guy is going to argue that his subtitles NEED to be in his video then it's truely a waste of time to argue with him at this point, and you are doing nothing but creating more drama for yourself by arguing.

I was talking about irriadin's link, with vashsama, who was undeniably whiny and unreceptive, but the comedy editor seemed pretty receptive you're right, and receptive to the "vague" and shitty comments that the AN users were giving, and that's the type of editor that really deserves more written to her about the video. She replied right away really friendly and receptive to what deslock said, and vowed to take it into account with her next video which the ultimate goal of any critique, and i think she even asked him to explain a little more, which he did! There, you could say that he didn't give a good "criticism/op" or whatever, idk if he said anything nice there, but that's just the type of critic he is. Some people are just blunt like that and some people just can't take their bluntness. It is somewhat of a fault to be too blunt but it's also somewhat of a fault to not be tough enough to handle bluntness.

[JaddziaDax]

a whole bunch of putting words in my mouth and other stuff

Okay I've been writing an essay, and I've finally decided it's not worth my time to write out all that here's the summery:

1. We were talking about time/energy conservation, not my videos. If you wanna conserve your precious time/energy, then don't watch/don't comment. Simple as that.

2. If you don't want to comment on my videos, that's okay with me. You know, after checking my last three announcement threads, you haven't commented anyway, so I don't think I'll be missing anything.

3. It's called exaggeration. Please learn this word for future reference.

4. I didn't "pass off that I'd already said anything". I appended my previous statement, because I realized I didn't say it before, and I know people aren't mind readers.

5. If you are going to be vague with me I'll ignore you. Simple as that. Only stating that "the scene selection didn't work" is vague, not helpful and not worth my time to try to follow up on. I put it in the book of "Well I would have done it differently".

6. Other criticisms might be so easy to figure out that the editor already knows the issue is there. Pointing it out again is like rubbing salt in a wound. Not telling them how to fix it or at minimum linking them a guide, just shows you are only good for pointing out the bad.

7. Sometimes you have to sell your criticisms. Sometime it works, sometimes not. If it doesn't sell, then it's not worth your time to continue to try. (They might have a change of mind later though.) I'm glad to see that there was at least an attempt on that haruhifanboy thread (about the subtitles), even though it failed.

8. No one is REQUIRED to give good constructive criticism. If you want to be a vague commenter then, by all means, go ahead. I'm not telling everyone that they have to comment this way ALL THE TIME FOR EVERY VIDEO. (That would be ridiculous.) I don't believe I said that even once. But at the same time if no one is offering up good criticism then don't be surprised when someone drama-queen's his way off your site.

9. As is with all situations that involve people: It could start to get rude at any moment.

10. I fail to see the correlation between giving suggestions on how to improve and ripping off someone. I find it funny that in this hobby that essentially rips off both the music and the anime industry, you have a problem with people ripping off videos/styles. Copying is the highest form of flattery

11. Just because the commenter is "part of the audience" doesn't give him credibility. (Trolls are a prime example.) While a commenter may have given valid feedback but that doesn't mean he has given valuable feedback. The difference being stating that something is bad may be valid, but stating why its bad and how it can be improved is valuable.

12. There are standards on AN or else people wouldn't leave bad comments to those videos.

13. I never said that a criticism had to be long. I only wrote out a long example, that gave many different smaller examples in it that could be used as shorter comments. I think you are assuming I'm saying things that I am not. Just because I provided an example that is long doesn't mean I think that people need to write that much every time.

14. The example was meant to illustrate tone, not length. I'm sorry if all you saw was a block of text. Did you even read it? I'm honestly asking because it doesn't seem like you have.

tl;dr? The whole point of my post, was that the tone of their comments was bad. This had nothing to do with the length or how much they wrote. It's about how they are saying it.

I take issue with people who brag about how awesome it is that they are "blunt" or "brutally honest" like it's a good thing. I just see it as an excuse to act like a jerk.

[aesling]

Wow, those people in those links were just...wow. It probably would have helped to include those examples in your original post so it didn't seem so much like a rant against one person. I can sympathize with your reaction to these people, I really can. I have little to no patience with idiots myself. That being said, in some of your posts you did kind of come off like an ass (no offense), and some of the other people posting were outright mean. Unlike JaddziaDax, I'm not saying you should have to be nice all the time (some people will never take your advice, no matter how nice you are), but if you take the other route don't be surprised if people react badly, especially people who are new to the hobby and haven't developed the thick skin it takes to survive posting your creative work on the internet, as was obviously the case with these posters. In fact, I'd venture a guess that for whatever reason the AMV editors that found their way to your site were all newbies.

I'd also like to bring up another point that I'm kind of surprised no one has covered already: age. AMV's seem to attract a lot of adolescent fans, and they're not necessarily going to have the maturity and experience to react to honest or harsh criticism well. For all you know, the person you were condemning for being immature and deleting threads was like 12, and, well, immature. Age shouldn't be an excuse for encouraging mediocrity, but just because someone creates something, doesn't mean they know what real critique is, or how to react to it. Just some food for thought.

[shadowwolf975]

That sure is a whole lot of words to ask

"Why do some people take criticism poorly?"

depends on the type of criticism, i dont like to hear "this sucks", but i do like to hear "this sucks, this is why, and this is how you could make it better."

[JaddziaDax]

There's a difference between being "nice all the time" and balanced.