The Attitudes Of AMV Creators...

[RadicalEd0]

You only believe that you have learned. The fact is that people really dont understand themselves, much less each other. Understanding 100% of anything is impossible. Thats why we spend so much time trying to understand our own motivations and those of others. Thats what makes life so interesting.


this kaji moment brought to you by the remember kaji memorial fund

[Stryker]

I’ve been reading this topic on and off all day, this is one a hell of a thread , and so I hope that I can keep true to the original topic. But to do so, you should know my background and then consider my thoughts on the matter.

When I first started coming to the org I was tickled pink to see that so many others had a interest in anime and amvs, but when I started to get serious, (meaning, to truly put real effort into my work) I started to read the forums and wanted to post many questions to better my abilities. But after seeing flame after flame directed towards almost any newbie that posted anything that resembled a question, it discouraged me to ask the questions that I wanted to ask. Hell one attempt that I made to post on a topic (a simple mentioning, that there is more than one way to rip a DVD sans Ermac’s guide) other than announcing my new videos left me roasted to a flaming crisp, even more discouragement. So, it’s not like I didn’t make a effort to try. But alas, this is one of the main reasons that I have a really low post count. Kind of puts a bit of a damper on the creator helping creator thing.

And now here’s how I see it:

I’ll probably never get to a con of any sort, or will get very few chances to meet up with other members of the org. There are probably dozens, hell, maybe thousands that never will. So basically, what me and the other ####’s take in from a creator’s personality on the forums and the chats is basically how we see said creator, we have hardly any other choice to.

So...It's all in how you present yourself.


I imagine that as I type this out, there is probably even more post being added to the thread and my post will get lost in the back draft of better know members… I had to say what was on my mine about the whole deal.

[CaTaClYsM]

took the words out of my mouth stryker.

[The Wired Knight]

Ok to take the part of this flame war and attempt to bring it back on topic. I think al ot of the flame wars and problems stem from one person's personal spite or hate towards one specific creator. I'm not going to preach about how we should all be friends (cause there's a couple people on this board I don't personally care for either) but you shouldn't let that take you to the point that you are defiling an otherwise pleasent board. I wasn't here for the Ermac incident and from the way things sound I'm glad I wasn't but deadwood such as that shouldn't be brought up on random occassions and instigate the problems. I think this is partially the reason Panda started the thread, because things like this occur just too damn much. Learn to control yourself, tact is a wonderfull thing.

[SarahtheBoring]

Keep in mind this is from the POV of a non-congoer (at least in person, long story) and a casual AMV maker.


In about 1997 I got involved in Fandom A.
I saw:
- People schmoozing to other fans who were considered "elite" for various reasons
- People trying to prove they're bigger fans than everyone else
- People saying their fandom was more artistic/deep/important than any other fandom like it

In around 1999 I got involved in Fandom B.
I saw:
- People schmoozing to other fans who were considered "elite" for various reasons
- People constantly trying to outdo one another in various ways
- People rabidly and famously saying their fandom is ultimately better than anything else like it ever

My interest in B led to Fandom C.
I saw:
- People simultaneously schmoozing to and trying to outdo fans who were considered "elite" for various reasons
- People constantly trying to outdo one another and taking it very, very, very personally when they were told they came up short
- People claiming their fandom is high art despite its basis in plagiarism

In 2002 I got involved in Fandom D.
I saw:
- People schmoozing a bit, but more often idolizing other fans who were considered "elite" for various reasons
- People WITHOUT PAUSE TO BREATHE trying to outdo one another
- People claiming their fandom is high art despite its origins in plagiarism

Later in 2002 I got involved in Fandom E.
I saw:
- People schmoozing violently with other fans who were considered "elite" for various reasons
- People viciously competing to the point where they <i>daily</i> hold symbolic cock-waving contests about who has flashier work
- People claiming their fandom is high art despite its origins in plagiarism and piracy


Now. This is merely an illustration of what has already been said. However, through all this, I haven't given up. My favorite motto nowadays is "There's no fun activity that an online community can't ruin", but I still hope for civil and adult activity from my fellow fans. And that's what I consider you all. Fellow fans.

"In the end, all we're doing is sticking music that we didn't write to anime we didn't animate" is a much more cogent statement of what my sig and other bitchings are trying to say: This is fun. Tons of fun. However, it is not more than life, and it destroys its meaning to use it as a weapon against others, saying "I'm a better person because I can rip off other people better than you can."

So I agree with many people here, including SpPanda (I don't feel I know you well enough to call ya Spamda ).


(And if you're wondering, though it defeats the purpose really, A is U2 fandom, B is Final Fantasy fandom, C is fanficcery, D is AMVing, and E is homebrew RPG making. See? No one is safe.)


That's all the stupid bitch has to say. Thank you.

[mexicanjunior]

That's all the stupid bitch has to say. Thank you.

Woah!

[SarahtheBoring]

That's all the stupid bitch has to say. Thank you.

Woah!

You weren't over in Off / Way Off Topic, huh? Apparently I'm a "stupid bitch". I'm being sarcastic.

[MCWagner]

Hokay. I just know that I'm going to regret doing this. I was hoping someone else would bring these points up so I wouldn't have to, but no one has. (You really didn't want me to do this...since, as some of you have found out, I tend to write a LOT)

I have a couple of points on SpPanda's original post, and the manner in which it has rolled out into the present fustercluck.

First, I find it distressing, Panda, that you haven't spotted the way in which the righteous indignation of your post has managed to do exactly what it is you are angry at the "elitist" crowd about. You've dismissed an entire clique of people through an assertion of your own moral superiority. Wait, lemme check...

...within the time i've been making them and competing in competitioni've noticed the attitudes that most AMV creators carry. It's hard to respect that there have been so many good videos created by countless artests, but when you look at the person who created it you see nothing but an egotistical jack ass.

(Emphasis mine)

You begin this little discussion by telling us that most AMV creators are egotistical jackasses. Tell me, is this the speech of someone who actually wants to bring about some kind of reform or someone who merely wishes to place themselves (and their select friends) apart from most everyone else...in a "special" class of people who wouldn't EVER be so rude as THOSE people over THERE.

Perhaps you were hyperbolizing for the sake of emphasis. That's understandable. Nonetheless, you aren't really making any attempt here to actually talk with the people you disagree with in an attempt to remedy the situation. Instead you fill your post with generally-worded insults which anyone paying even mild attention to can tell who they are addressed to. In effect, this becomes a private little condescending screed at people you don't like.

Elite members... have the worst attitudes of them all. They act as though their shit doesn't stink. I'd like to see them prove me wrong.

This shows especially through the manner in which the thread has played out. People come in and rip on one another from a position of moral superiority ("who does such and such think he is to dictate such and such") 'cause it gives them a chance to piss at someone else under your banner.

Second, I find it rather disingenuous of you to pretend to be making very general statements about "conditions you've noticed" when you are, in actuality, making very pointed statements against certian members with a sly wink and a nod.

when he says he wants to make a DDR project... who are we to tell him to go to hell? to tell him to kiss our asses because the rights to the idea are ours?

If you have a problem with someone, you should come right out and state it. "Such and such is uniformly rude to new members and has been directly obstructing other people's work in an effort to remain well considered in the field." That would have been more frankly honest. If you have a personal beef with Brad DeMoss, Hsien Lee, or Patrick Bohnet about the way in which the whole DDR debacle was handled, then for heaven's sake say so. Staying perched in the ivory tower of grand generalities means you never actually have an effect on people. You aren't going to be able to shame anyone into changing their ways unless you POINT AT THEM in a way that actually stirrs something in them other than peevish disgust at your holier-than-thou attitude. I'm sorry, but when you take what was obviously meant to be a humorous remark and "[note behaviour]" on it, my first response will be "Oh! I'm sorry, did you not check my moral purity when I came in?" Yes, your response was probably also meant to be humorous, but in an insulting and denigrating manner. Was Hsien's similarly? Perhaps, but then you're doing exactly what you're complaining about in other people.

In other words, you're not helping the situation, you're just drawing a line in the sand and gathering people on either side to hurl invectives at one another. You're dividing us into camps instead of trying to bring us together.

(Speaking of which, Tommyrude, you probably don't care what I think, as I'm not involved on either side of the debate, but every time you show up with a long string of crass insults for anyone who dares to question your position, it makes me care less and less to hear your side of the story.)

In general: There are rare occasions when someone deserves to be flamed. The vast majority of the rest (including most of those I've been unfortunate enough to come across here) are either meant as a kind of SA humor, result from issues entirely exterior to the conversation (someone had a bad day at work), or are massive misunderstandings. Any motivated purely by spite, sadism, or vindictiveness, I agree, are thoroughly unfounded and the instigator should be ashamed.

Elitism? The vast majority of what people misinterpret as "elitism" is either A) mistakenly superimposed on groups by those external to them ("man, I wish I was hanging out with them....only the BEST AMVers hang out there") B) people speaking with authority from experience and not realizing that it comes off as an "attitude" ("Eva videos are played out....I haven't seen a new original one in a long time") or C) long established cliques of good friends who got together because of their common hobby. (Such and such and what's his name always hang out with what's his face...what, they think they're too good to hang out with the rest of us?)

(I wrote an artical on a similar issue a good long while ago, but it might still be relevant: http://www.ryo-oh-ki.net/artificial-suns/oldschool.htm Yes, I know my page sucks. I never get time to work on it.)

I know several people who have fled this forum in the past just to A) get out of all the flames (no argument there) and B) to avoid being pulled into these constant arguments where everyone is viewed as "taking sides"...which appears to be what is happening here.

(Nails1000....dude, it's a JOKE.)

Being someone who has had to speak with some authority for AWA on fairly hostile mailing lists before means that I have run into a LOT of "elitist" accusations. The vast majority of these have been nothing but massive misinterpretations of the situation.

Thus, Panda, if you wanted to make this into an actually useful thread, instead of just preaching to the choir and everyone else ignoring it, I would suggest you go back and rewrite your post to offer more constructive and less insulting criticism, and either take out all the sly sidelong-mentions of some people or state your disagreements directly.

And yes, of course, this is all just IMHO. But it is my opinion at that, and just as legitimate as yours.

[nailz]

whats a joke? I havent posted for like 5 pages.

[MistyCaldwell]

(And if you're wondering, though it defeats the purpose really, A is U2 fandom, B is Final Fantasy fandom, C is fanficcery, D is AMVing, and E is homebrew RPG making. See? No one is safe.)

Hey I guessed the general anime series fandom, fanfiction, and amv making ones right. I've never done RPGing or been interested in FF...so What's my prize?

This happens everywhere, it's most likely one of the attributes in human nature that stems from a need for leadership. In any community or group social animals want a leader or someone to model after. Sometimes it goes as far as hero worship. It would be nice if we all could get along but human nature doesn't work that way...ahh well.

We can always just agree to disagree and put the good amv maker and bad amv maker labels to rest. That should just about solve everything, saying that there is no degree of good or bad, simply experience.