I just have to know...

[Fall_Child42]

Wow. Didn't think this would actually get posted.

A couple of the replies are along the lines of what I'm looking for,and I'll reply later when I get a chance. Thanks for everyone's responses so far, though!

Why did you think this would not get posted?

[TritioAFB]

I love honest people when dealing with feedback. I always keep saying that IF I were in youtube, comments like: awesome! amazing! or stuff like that is accepted. It's youtube after all so I can't really ask for honest feedback.

Problem is like some editors that have spent all their life as editors in YouTube enters into a "Security Zone" so they keep editing the same, the same and the same. And if they make candypop effects, the viewers just get accostumed that even their bad clips are considered "awesomeness"

It will affect the way the editor takes the criticism. For me as an example:

It's good when I receive comments from people enjoying the vid, I mean, that's one of the best rewards an editor may receive. When I receive a comment that's based to improve facts for next vids, I always read them and keep them in mind next time I plan something similar. That's the way I've been improving this year, obviously I don't find something useful in comments like: Anime sucks! or you suck!

At Akross for example, I have to justify myself everytime I comment in a video saying if I like it or not. I don't believe in the perfect feedback, so as I will point positive points I will do the same with negative points, but I'll not bash an editor just because I don't like music selection or anime selection. That being said, for me you can be a famous editor as you can be a beginner. You may be my favorite editor or I might hate the way you are, but that doesn't give me the reason to give a poor feedback. It's about the clip I'm reviewing, not the author.

I always will to offer feedback, since I feel like that's my original purpose in the amv world. Watching generations of editors coming and leaving it's just something I always keep in mind before reviewing an amv, and like the rest I had my own experiences, training editors through the feedback, or just forgetting about the "failed-promises"

[Skylark2]

From the previous post by Skylark2 :

Along with other motivational factors, I sometimes post my own work to test audience response to my own ideas. In some cases, and if a person is really lucky, a person might post their creation online and find a career. See here.

The link in the words 'See here' wasn't transferred over. Here's that link:

http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/tintin-fan-job-spielberg/

[Tailmon]

There is criticism and there is advice. One needs to be more tactful about how you approach and talk to the person you are
trying to criticize or advise. Critics normally come off as assholes that pick apart anything they dislike. It can be so pointed and fine that they even dislike how someone writes. We all have a certain style when we do things. If one critic dislikes your style and everyone else loves it do you listen to the critic? If Mark Twain or Allen Poe listened to critics we would have lost great
classics. I've found that critics in many cases are people with no imagination and criticize others because they hate them.

Advice if done properly is not criticism. I've encouraged young people to write all the time. My family seems to have thing about writing. Now no one is perfect when they do things or put things together. It could be considered style a fault or in some cases mild dyslexia. I was never told I had it. Yet I managed to get past it and even through college. I was told by my teacher in an English lit class that I would never be able to write. I found out later after they fired her she was an opinionated critical ass. If it was not in a style like she had it was crap and given failing scores. I found out later that my technical writing teacher actually considered my writing one of the best he had encountered in years. Now who helped and encouraged me more? The Desslock style of criticism or the teacher that helped me and encouraged me?

People that call themselves "A troll now and then." And are known to troll several forums under the guise as a so called critic. Are noting but what most moderators call a "Super Troll." These people do nothing but bait and troll forums for their fun and even spend hours digging to bring up things on anyone that complains or tries to disrupt his trolling fun. In some cases these Super Trolls actually are a cause of many a forums decline by chasing others off the forums. They can call others to their bandwagon and chase off people under the guise of criticism.

[ZephyrStar]

This has been pretty well covered in the thread. I think one of the big reasons people can't handle constructive criticism is that we live in a very narcissistic society today, everyone wants to be a winner without doing the work to get there. More accurately, everyone thinks they already are a winner, so any attempt at pointing out things that might make their work better is automatically seen as flaming, or hating, or what have you. It takes an open mind to get used to constructive criticism. I don't know why it seems to be more the case with AMVs, but what was said previously about this site is very true, most of the people here can dish it out and take it, and we make good use of it.

[Leader Desslock]

Thanks for the folks who've responded seriously. For the rest, "Eh." If I didn't have thick enough skin to take a little snark, I should stay off the internet, right?

To respond to a few individual points:

You do realize you're posting this question on a website that has been vilified as a haven for mean-spirited, elitist snobs because, unlike youtube, those of us dedicated to the hobby enough to post here actually hold feedback and critique in the highest regard.

You need to take a look at where you are. This isn't youtube...

...your post shows an almost hilarious level of ignorance of the situation. This is all, quite literally, preaching to the choir.

Ha, ha... no, I actually had no idea. I've never been here before. That is hilarious.

That sure is a whole lot of words to ask

"Why do some people take criticism poorly?"

Not quite what I asked, though. I asked about my own personal perception that there seemed to be a slightly higher incidence of that behaviour amoung AMV creators, compared to other fan-based artwork.

Could be lots of reasons for that. I don't associate with the anime fanbase beyond AN, so... maybe AN attracts a higher proportion of the thin-skinned ones. Beats me, but having evidently ticked off yet another one, I thought I'd ask in a place it made more sense to ask. We've had this discussion on AN, and I haven't really gotten anywhere with it. AN prefers strong criticism to bland flattery, so we scare off the ones I'm talking about, frankly.

Fan-fiction writers for the most part seem to write romanticized trash and slash fic that requires no imagination or ability.

Actually, I'm going to agree with you on that one.

You see what I did there? I took a small sample of my own experience with both editing and fan fiction writers and extrapolated it as a whole. Can you now see how what you've written could be interpreted in the same way by us? Yes, obviously you've had some bad experiences with editors not taking criticism. You know what you do then? Don't talk to them.

I typically don't, once they've had the inevitable meltdown, obviously. I'm trying to get at the heart of that seemingly self-induced meltdown.

Okay, so you don't indicate them by name, but it still appears you're going out of your way to enforce your own opinion on someone else who clearly doesn't want to hear it. After they deleted the initial thread, unhappy with your feedback, you felt it necessary to follow onto their youtube channel and make similar comments there?

Um, no - never made a critical comment at that point, as I said. It is a pet peeve of mine when someone deletes feedback they asked me to post (even after being warned it would be honest), so all I posted was "Next time, don't ask for honest feedback if you're not willing to accept it." I signed my name so they'd know who it was. Nothing snarky.

Yes, I realise I'm taking this quote out of context and that you did make some valid points before it, I acknowledge that.

The context before that established what I meant by "eh." It was forgettable not because it was bad, but because it was so similar to the ocean of similar "pile of clips I like plus a song I like" AMVs out there that it was indistinguishable. The comments before that involved what I perceived as a lack of actual expression in the work beyond that. It's that expression that distinguishes a creative work. Absent that, my reaction was "eh", which is how I summed it up in case he didn't want to read the rest. I wouldn't have just said it on its own, and yes, I agree that to do so would have been unconstructive. But I think giving it as an intitial reaction/summary opinion is constructive, as it sums up the non-critical reaction the piece is likely to receive.

Now if you read my response and think "well your own reply can be used against you because you've just done the exact same thing to me" well that's the point.

Nah, that's not what I thought at all. I'm just happy someone took the time to write a well-thought-out reply. Thanks! And props for the Gene Wilder reference.

I hope you do value critiques as much as you claim to because your writing could use work.

My online forum rant style isn't indicative of my professional writing style, which is true for most authors, I think. I can post a copy of something I posted over at AN, if you like. Fair's fair.

Let's see... What the heck... Christmas is coming up anyway:
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=210888

Feel free to tear me a new one.


Well, gotta run. I'll check back later. Thanks again, all!

[zibbazabba905]

I like how you chased them down just to tell them their video was "eh..."

[Radical_Yue]

I like how you chased them down just to tell them their video was "eh..."

The chasing down part is pretty messed up.

The "eh..." part I can understand. I believe describing something as "eh..." or "bland" or "boring" etc... is completely acceptable, as long as you provide information as to why you're reacting that way to the video.

How many times have you described, say a restaurant, to someone you know as "Eh....it's not bad but it's not good."
Vocalizing a negative feeling or mood that a video creates (with the reason why it creates that feeling or mood) can be just as helpful from a criticism standpoint as telling the editor what parts were exciting, etc...

Ex.

"The editing and x and y was brilliant! Felt like a major adrenaline rush and totally kept me on the edge of my seat! Fast, fun and kick ass video!"
or
"The video....it was just kind of eh...the combination has been done to death and while the editing wasn't horrible, there just wasn't anything to make it stand out from the rest. Sorry man, I didn't dig it."

So, used the correct way, I see it as a more "personal" means of delivery criticism. Telling the editor how it made you feel and why is just kind of an extra step than outlying technical problems. That and it seems like a more human response than "THIS IS INTERNET. SRS BZNS. YOU WILL GET FEEDBACK WITH TIMESTAMPS, TECHNICAL PROBLEMS AND NOTHING MOOOOORE."

Now, if all you say it's "That was boring as shit. I hope your mother hit by a bus and her brain matters splatters all over your face in the process."
Theeeeeeen, that's not cool

[Taite]

Basically all you're doing is venting/complaining about the people who don't take criticism well. I think you made valid points here and there, but my question is: who actually gives a fuck?

People in all types of "communities for hobbies" can't take criticism, ie: fanfiction people. However, seeing as you're an outsider to the "amv editing community," it's interesting seeing what you think. But none of what you said is factual, it's all based on a few observations, and not really of this forum. I've read a few fanfictions, but I'm not going to go and say that everyone in that community is a sick fuck, because I only read a few.
You are mostly describing people who post their amvs on youtube anyhow, sorry.

[Fall_Child42]

I've read a few fanfictions, but I'm not going to go and say that everyone in that community is a sick fuck, because I only read a few..

I'll say that!

Everyone in they fan-fiction community are sick disturbed individuals with poor writing ability and they also smell.