Where is our world going?

[Vivaldi]

I'd really think opening up to the tube community would be the best thing to do. There's lots of editors there that are actually good, and more importantly there's even more editors there who have the potential to become good. People who like doing it enough to become really good, but simply don't have the enviroment or the people around them to make it so.

The only problem with that is that they DON'T want to come here. They DON'T want to improve. And when you try and help them improve, they fill your pm box and quick comment all your videos with hate mail [it's happened to me, and I'm sure it's happened to others].

They, they, they, who's they? What about me? What about Shinnie07? The tube is not an entity, it's people, a lot of people. If some of them can't take it here, then that reduces the "quality" problem people are worried about. But we can substantially help a huge number of people's lives, I don't see why we should try not to just because there might be a few people who don't like it here.

But for the few that do want to get improved, and the ones that do try to make it into the community, there's really nothing stopping them from doing so. One that really pops out in my mind in Kenzichu. She started with rough videos, took the critism and is making relatively good videos now, and I at least think she's part of the community now. And we get new people like that a lot. I remember last year in Project Editor when Gotenks and saruto joined the MEP. I and the other members didn't shun them from the project. We let them in with open arms. I mean, it's not like members of the site are intentionally trying to stop new members. It's the new members that intentionally stop themselves.

Again, I'm not talking in absolutes, but because there's two people who were allowed to join a contest (and were promptly kicked I might add) doesn't mean we're not an aggressively exclusionary community. I'm not saying we should change how we review or act (though that's a whole different bag'O'beans) But we should at least try to outreach to the tube community.

Also:

I don't want to get nicer, I don't want to get more accessible, and I certainly don't want to advertise. I make a point to never include links to the org on anything I post to hosatchel. If anything, with the knowledge that the Org's original mission is impossible, we should be more inward looking.

[Castor Troy]

booshack deleted my account so screw them to hell.

.org forever!

[dreamawake]

booshack deleted my account so screw them to hell.

.org forever!

This!

[Moonlight Soldier]

booshack deleted my account so screw them to hell.

.org forever!

Fight the power!

Frankly, the only reason I bother with the org is because I've made, and continue to make really good friends here. That's really it.

[Knowname]

I've noticed the org 'dying' pretty well the last year especially. But I don't see the org dying really. I only see it returning to niche status. It was fun in 2005 and all, but frankly I didn't like what came out of being the hip thing I am MUCH more comfortable with the way things are right now. When we were the hip thing everything was a competition. Now it is much more laid back and we can all be ourselves. I don't know if the two things coincide, but I like this hobby working in the background, not taking a front row seat.

As for going to YT on 'recruiting' trips xD xD good luck with that. Back in 05 even the industry seemed to think Video editing was where it was going to be at with the introduction of WMM, Sony Vegas, YT itself. There just isn't the same magic now. Even if we could somehow get the org back to membership lvls it won't be the same. You can't relive the past. All we need really is an IT nerd or something like AD, or Ermac, or Zarxrax. Who can carry on their shoes? That's what's making the org feel so stayle, the guides hadn't been updated in 5 years.

[CodeZTM]

Disregard

[Kai Stromler]

Generally, to paraphrase Agalloch:

The Earth is floating on the waters like an island,
Hanging from four rawhide ropes
Fastened at the top of the Sacred four directions.
The ropes are tied to the ceiling of the sky,
When the ropes break, this world will come
Tumbling down and all living things will fall with it and die

Life is a clay urn on the mantle
And we are the fragments on the floor
Life is a clay urn on the mantle
And we are in ashes on the floor
We are the wounds and the great cold death of the earth
In darkness, and in silence, the light shall flicker out

Oh, as regards the .org? Well, if all the doomsaying about donations is accurate, the path is pretty clear: turn off local hosting and go back to the original mission, to catalogue rather than collect every AMV. The problem that the Golden Donut solved in 2003 is no longer in need of a solution. There are a plethora of free hosts for large files out there that people can take advantage of, in addition to hosatchel as an instant delivery mechanism. If there's an intent also to make available an AMV canon, continue to local-host stuff that is on proxy right now and anything else the admins deem historically significant, continue to support via donation, and let donators host locally as well as per the original Dangling Carrot. If competing with the tube is a losing proposition, stop competing with them and find a different niche.

As long as there's a streaming video site out there that anyone can upload to, essentially without restriction, we are not going to get back the large numbers of invisible, small-donating members that we had when the .org was the easiest way to get AMVs distributed. The current economic crunch and the end of the anime boom are not helping either. If the current .org model is not sustainable, it's time to find a new model which is, or to revert to the old one. There is always going to be a role for the .org as a clearinghouse for information and for editors to talk shop and get technical criticism from people who are not just watching the video because of its sources. The needfulness of the .org as a primary distribution mechanism, though, is significantly diminished.

--K

[Vivaldi]

They, they, they, who's they? What about me? What about Shinnie07? The tube is not an entity, it's people, a lot of people. If some of them can't take it here, then that reduces the "quality" problem people are worried about.

The "they" argument was not cute when I had to hear it from a philosophy professor, and it's not any cuter now.

They = Tube AMV Editors. I thought certainly you'd realize that was what I was talking about. Because I certainly wasn't talking about people who make speed runs of video games or who are posting videos of them beating up nerds. I certainly wasn't talking about the tube as a whole. =|

Don't get snippy, you know perfectly well what I mean. You can't generalize people like that. Okay, you said "they DON'T want to come here. They DON'T want to improve". instead of pointing out the obvious error in semantics, I'll run the loop in your terms, they would want to come here if they'd heard of us, they'd like to improve if they knew how. you're wrong.

*snip*
Ahhh. The only problem with that argument is that one of those "few people" owns the website. Need i even say the word <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... ochsack</a>, it gets filtered.

___________

IN all honesty, I don't know what you're arguing about....

My argument is about practicality, it's about ideaolugy. I think we need to get rid of the disgusting elistist isolationist attitude, that whether you like it or not, exists and prevades the org. Starting with —

I don't want to get nicer, I don't want to get more accessible, and I certainly don't want to advertise. I make a point to never include links to the org on anything I post to hosatchel. If anything, with the knowledge that the Org's original mission is impossible, we should be more inward looking.

—and ending with what I'm gonna go ahead and say is the utterly frivolas and batshit insane censoring of the word youtube. I'm aware of the fact our owner hates the tube, disregarding the fact that Phade seems to have jack shit to do with the org except for processing donations. If a newbie comes in with YT background, darn straight he's going to get trolled to hell and back. We only accept people if they fall completely in line with the rest of the community. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have them conform to us, but we take it way, Way, Way too far.

Our membership rate decreases by almost half every year. We're going to die, and in the end it's going to be because we've isolated ourselves from hundreds if not thousands of possible new editors and told every newbie who wasn't assimilated to our community to fuck right off.

Not to talk in generalizations or anything.

[Vivaldi]

disregard

If a mod wouldn't mind....

[Megamom]

I am more optimistic... the path of change is in our hands, to say that this community will disappear, for god... I'd rather die!