Recruiting from The Tube

[8bit_samurai]

I guess the hosatchelrs don't have a sense of humor, or something :/

The thought of searching for AMVs on the 'sack never really crossed my mind, not because of the crappy quality I keep hearing about, but because the Org was one of the first places I went for AMVs when I really got interested in them. If there was any bad thoughts I had about the 'sack, it's probably because of the filter here. Not from the filter itself, but how it's used, I guess, if that makes sense, but my overall thoughts about the 'sack is pretty neutral.

If I have any comparisons, I would see the 'sack as a conglomerate store and the Org as a special interests store. Or something along those lines at least. The 'sack does have just about everything, while the Org is just focused on one thing. Some of the customers at the conglomerate would rather shop there, while some of the customers can be drawn into the special interest store from one of the products. Or something like that anyways. From that stand point I could see why some of the customers would get mad if their special interest store would become more like the conglomerate just to accommodate (or it would seem that way) to the conglomerate shoppers. Though, I'm not saying all the special interest shoppers feel this way, or that it's the only reason they may feel this way. It may be a bad comparison, but it's the first thing that came to mind :/

But in the end (it doesn't even matter I tried so haarrrdd lulz :/) the purpose of the site is to catalog all the AMVs ever created, and if becoming more like the conglomerate (in some ways, not all the way) helps with that purpose, than I don't really see any harm in doing so. But then again that's just me :/

[godix]

A few general comments:

New users will not conform to our current standards or community. They will change our community and, perhaps, our standards. That is normal and just how things work. Communities evolve over time as members come and go. If someone opposed the tubers joining because they won't fit into the oldtimers cranky asshole club the forums have become, well, that's a pointless fight. The oldtimers cranky asshole club will change one way or another as time goes on regardless of tube users. There are valid reasons to not support a youtube push but this isn't one of them. The world changes, deal with it.

Now that's not to say I want tube users around. The org and youtube communities do not compliment each other. Yes, tubers are mostly childish brats who just want their e-penis to get sucked. On the other hand, org members are mostly a bunch of bitter has been pricks who just want videos to be exactly the same and never evolving expect with better video quality. They're the ones who are doing it just because it's fun and who cares how polished the results are, we're the ones who will leave four pages of comments about someone using the wrong aspect ratio and never once mention what the entertainment of the video. A mass meeting of the two communities would most likely entirely drive off one of the two sides rather than have them co-exist. Vivaldi mentioned an example of someone getting pissy and they either leave or learn to deal with it. Which is fine as an isolated occasional incident but the issue here is if we're gonna open the floodgates and have dozens of these incidents a day. Personally I think things are fine now. The guys who just wanna make a quicky for fun and damn the quality are happy on the tube. The guys who get so wrapped up in this crap that they'll probably die from a heartattack about it all can stay here. Two different groups, two different ways of viewing the hobby, two different communities. I'm not really seeing why we need to push to try and combine them somehow.

Note: Of course this is all generalization also I'm just talking about an actual push to get large numbers of tubers coming into the org all at the same time. If they find their way here individually then that's never been much of a problem.

[animedays]

Wow, this thread sure has some interesting things going on.

Ok, as a noob...here's my take:

1. You-tubers being kids. While I will say yes, I'm a youtube convert, and still a youtuber, let's keep something in mind---- we are missing the trend entirely (and I'm not a kid, I'm in my late 20's).
A. It's not just youtube that's full of kids and teens. It's the whole entire anime genre.
1. Anyone who has been around long enough will remember who much the anime industry has grown, and as much as I hate to admit this, the growth in the genre itself has been teenagers and younger. Has anyone been to a convention lately? I'm not even 30, and I'm an old hag at one.

B. Kids get upset over crits: not necessarily, but I think the general problem here is our younger generation has been raised in an entirely different manner. Most schools do not teach constructive critism any more, and infact seems to be frowned upon on the basis of hurting the youngs self esteem. (Of course, God forbid that we look at the home and social environments for the lack of self esteem). Not to mention overall, the general population of people can't seem to handle a constructive crit any more. A lot of these kids and people in general may not be coming from a background like me: I have a background in choreography, dance, flags, and art. I had to learn what constructive critism is, and learn from it. Having my art posted on many art sites, I can say in general most people don't like crits at all, and are often offended by crits for some reason----- and they all aren't kids. I welcome a crit whenever I get one, but I've had backlash on some sites for giving crits. It's not necessarily age related...it seems to be the norm these days.
1. I like this site because it has OPs available, and I get honest responses (that tore my AMV to shreds lol).

C. Social Classes: I've noticed it as a noob, that youtube is frowned upon... but there are many underlying reasons for this. I won't comment too much on this, I think the other posts touch on this well enough across the board. What I will say is that isn't a fact of life every where? Cliques, circles, and royalty... it's at school, work, parties...I'm sorry but it's true. Now what I will say is that the org is open to anyone. Anyone with a serious AMV bug will google AMV, and guess what the first link is? It's not youtube. If the org wanted to be exclusive, it could have a jury party/try outs...much like how epilogue (fantasy art) was originally. And overall, the group here is pretty tolerant.

D. Copyrights/youtube/the org: The truth of the matter is, that as the laws are written now AMVs break copyright law, or at best fall into gray. Fair Use in of itself is vague. The Digital Media (DMCA) laws are reaking havoc... and plain and simple the laws are behind the technology. There are two problems overlapping here.
1. The underlying cause is piracy (a type of copyright infringement). I don't want to talk too much on this...but this is what is feeding the fire. (I'm guilty of it myself in some aspects, but I also buy--- I only own two movies, my whole DVD collection is anime otherwise ) So, I don't want to dish too far into the fansubs, peer to peer, etc...but piracy is what everyone is screaming about b/c sales in anime, DVDs, and CDs have dropped dramatically.
a. Now the biggest opponents that I've seen to AMVs are music companies. Right now this is the threat to the ORG and it is very real. This is probably the biggest threat to most home made media, youtuber or the org.
2. General copyright laws: AMVs take no heed to licensing...every movie you watch that has music, the movie makers paid the music company to use their song in the movie. Just as Pepsi paid the movie company to have the actor drink pepsi. Radio stations pay $$$ to air the music. What did we do? Hopefully bought the CD or MP3.
3. For some reason, both of the above causes get lumped together. Now I hardly think that an AMV increases piracy. Youtube that has full episodes of family guy on it is another story. And youtube by the way is still being sued for copyright infringement. But for some reason an AMV posted on youtube leads to piracy? (Indirectly yes, because anyone can download your video of copyrighted anime and music and share it) Are AMVs causing kids to go to a torrent to download songs?
4. The laws need to be rewritten. Fair use must be defined, and options for easy inexpensive licensing have to be looked at.

OK, I'm done blabbing.

[JaddziaDax]

note: I never said that the tube people were kids... I said I've come across immature people who let their friends gang up on me for making a comment and I usually only try to get people who can handle crit to join the org.

I'm one of the nicest people I know who occasionally dishes out the crit, and I usually only do so to see if they are willing to listen, and if I think they show some kind of potential, and if they can't handle it from me, then they definitely won't be able to handle it from the local forum resident... So why subject them and the locals here to that kind of drama?

[Prodigi]

Ban them all.

[Purge]

Jurassic park 4 : the org

[Chaobunny12]

I still use youtube. Mainly because I don't neccessarily trust downloading a million things. And I've always had a paranoia about people stealing my videos. In my honest opinion, offering your video for download is like posting a big sign that says "Steal this please!" I don't generally do it. Sure, 99% of people will simply watch it. But then there are the group of people that think if they change the music and flip around the clips it's considered original.

But I came here from youtube and began uploading videos to get some decent critique. I still post my videos there, too, but it's nice to get another perspective.

But what I don't understand is the whole "holier than thou" attitude here about people who use youtube. It's not a bad site to watch videos on. Sure the quality is pretty bad, but if you're just watching and don't want to download every video you watch it can be useful.

[JaddziaDax]

I don't understand the paranoia of people worried about others "stealing their footage"... maybe I just got over it in 2005 or something, but really is it THAT big of a deal? its like the pot calling the kettle black O.o

[Castor Troy]

I don't understand the paranoia of people worried about others "stealing their footage"... maybe I just got over it in 2005 or something, but really is it THAT big of a deal? its like the pot calling the kettle black O.o

One jackass stole my Naruto Ball Z video, removed the credits, and has 11 million hits for it on the tube.

There's not much I can do about it and it used to not piss me off, but I can't help but feel pissed at that.

[outlawed]

Greetings from planet youtube,

WE ARE &fmt=22. YOU HAVE NO CHANCE; LAY DOWN ARMS OR FACE EXTINCTION.

But seriously. Let's keep in mind that in some ways the exclusionary aspect of what is being discussed here can be considered one the reasons this website was created. As far as the one of the announced goals of the site to be an online AMV catalog you cannot say that is what the site succeeded at let alone actually became its main purpose. From an outsiders position the most recent large schism of the site would be the addition of hosting downloads. Currently the site is the stomping grounds for a lot of the convention regulars. While there are many on the site who are not involved in cons I think it is general knowledge who the loudest voices are. I would say don't be so unwelcoming. Perhaps a fresh clique is just what the community needs?

I don't understand the paranoia of people worried about others "stealing their footage"... maybe I just got over it in 2005 or something, but really is it THAT big of a deal? its like the pot calling the kettle black O.o

Fan creators steal edits. Professional composers use quotations. amirite

Some German bastids put our fansub of Cowboy Bebop Session XX on youtube. That really pisses me... no wait...it does nothing other than amuse me. Actually I AM pissed. It looks like they cut out some of the damn commercials we left in. MUTHA...