AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

[blaksun]

way do you then leve out this dont help (no thank you no this don´t help...)

but sorry no i guess i dot see the point you woes trying to make but only quoting haft off it

[Arigatomina]

It seems kind of childish to say that you don't want to give opinions anymore just because you don't get a thank you.

It could be the spelling, but I don't think that's what he said. If that was what he meant to say, then I disagree. I don't think it's childish at all. I think it's pretty mature to know when you're wasting your time and to move onto something more rewarding.

Fact: Few people leave ops.
Fact: Even the few people who do leave ops rarely get responses.
Fact: Unless the editor responds to the review the reviewer has no way of knowing if they even read the op.
Opinion: An unread op is a waste of text.
Assumption: You stopped giving ops because you don't get responses.

Even if that assumption were correct, it doesn't change any of the facts given.

Ops are a way for viewers to talk to the creators. If the editors have nothing to say in return, the viewers might as well be talking to a computer screen. Yeah, it can be personally fulfilling to the person talking, a way to vent or organize their thoughts, but for those hoping to communicate it's a waste of time. Creators on the tube might not respond, either, but at least there the people talking to the computer screen can talk to each other to fill in that silence. I think the org underestimates how attractive the public op system on the tube is to viewers who want to talk about what they watch, with each other if not with the creators themselves. We've tried to have review threads here in the forum, but it's just not the same when the conversation is separated from the videos themselves. Random viewers aren't invited to jump in because they don't even know the threads exist unless they visit the forum and search for them. The downside of writing ops isn't the lack of "thanks", it's the lack of any response whatsoever. If no one is going to talk back, why waste your breath? You might as well be typing into a void.

[Taite]

Is being rewarded yourself the main thing then? That's certainly not why I started giving opinions.
And is not getting a reply to opinions really such a serious issue though? In the announcement threads the creator pretty much always responds, especially nowadays because even getting a comment is rare. No one leaves random opinions anymore, and if they do it's few. The only opinions that are given are in the opinion threads and of course the creator reads them, they asked for the opinion. It's very unlikely that you ask for something, get it, and don't read it, but it would only not be read on purpose if the creator didn't want it, which they would if they posted it asking for an opinion, no?
I've only given 34 opinions since I started giving feedback and I've had replies from 21 of those, on the opinion part of the site, through my thread, or on skype, and I know I'm forgetting a few.

If you're giving paragraphs of criticism and spending huge lengths of times putting effort into critique and never getting responses, then I agree, that would be a waste of time. But who is doing that now exactly?
But to me it's not a waste a time at all to give opinions, especially if the creator asks for it, which they have to nowadays. If you're just dropping a random opinion, they mostly likely don't want it anyhow, so why would you? Of course it's a waste of your time then.

So the way I see it:
Creator asks for opinion in opinion thread > gets it > reads it > may/nay not reply. Either way they read it and naturally thought about it since it's about their work.
You leave random opinion > you'll never know.

I can see how that would be a contributing factor when opinions first started to drop off, but the main thing to me is that Skype/online chat things/cell for some people/ all that is way more direct anyhow and better facilitates actual conversation than the system the org has, and that took the place of most conversations. Plus the whole youtube thing, which I agree with. Today, if you want to give opinions and get a response from it, your best bet is in the opinion thread, or asking someone directly which a lot of people do. So you have to ask for it now essentially, which is sad in itself, but it's more worth my time to give opinions to people who ask for them then drop them off on random videos when they likely don't want it.

[Diegao]

Agree with Taite. I don't know how things used to be, but now the situation is this.

[Kyssifur]

I'm curious what you were thinking. Are you referring to the format of the opinion/stars? Haven't really thought about it myself and didn't know some people didn't like it, but since this is different than everything else in the thread and I've used it a lot more often now, I'm just curious.

Spirito competitivo!

There is just no way to get to the top of the lists because there are not enough opinions given. I know that those AMVs are classicals and immortals, etcblabla., but I think newage AMVs are not appreciated enough on this site. I hope you understand me. The rating systems are not trustworthy at all. Or does anybody think that these are the best 10 AMVs of all time on org?



In a nutshell... the site is old.

[Arigatomina]

The org was different when I started. Almost everyone I left an op for was still here and eager to talk about their work. Responses were more common than not. I made friends by leaving ops long before I ventured into the forum. I got to help some new creators along until they surpassed me by so much I was giddy to have known them from the start. Eventually the editors stopped responding and ops were just a friendly "hi there" that goes unacknowledged. So, yes, responses are the main thing. In the beginning I wanted responses in order to get to know people and to understand the way those different people edited and viewed things. Later responses were a way of knowing I wasn't completely wasting my time. Now there are no responses, so...why write ops? I'm certainly not helping myself in any way by typing up an op. I'm not helping myself by watching a video I wouldn't have touched if I didn't know the creator specifically asked for feedback. And giving feedback someone asked for only to be ignored by that person makes me dislike that person - that's no way to help myself enjoy the site and the people on it more. I guess I could pat myself on the back for at least making an effort, but that effort is better spent on people eager and willing to communicate. Writing ops isn't helping the org because the org, meaning the editors, don't want them. They may ask for them, but they could care less what's written in them.

I think the lack of responses is one of the reasons no one gives ops anymore, and one of the reasons the only opinions given now are in the opinion threads where editors still don't respond to them. If editors like it that way, great. If editors would like more ops, then they should respond more to the ones they get. In my opinion.

It's very unlikely that you ask for something, get it, and don't read it, but it would only not be read on purpose if the creator didn't want it, which they would if they posted it asking for an opinion, no?

You'd think so. But try doing a free op thread yourself. Most people asking for ops just want the numbers that will help their vids get onto the lists. Maybe some of them do read the actual text, but they sure don't respond to it. I speak from experience. You start a free op thread, give a 20 ops, get 2 responses, and then the pointlessness overwhelms you until you go do something more productive with your time. That's the org now.

If you're giving paragraphs of criticism and spending huge lengths of times putting effort into critique and never getting responses, then I agree, that would be a waste of time. But who is doing that now exactly?

Not me. I used to. That was the whole point of doing op threads, to give detailed feedback to the creators who wanted it. To feel like I was at least trying to contribute to the org. A quick op would take me half an hour and that's not worth a few seconds to say "I'm not reading that crap" let alone "thanks for trying to care." I finally learned my lesson. If no one else is doing that now, either, then there's probably a good reason for that.

This is all just me defending my opinion that writing ops on the org is pointless if the editors won't respond to them. I think the death of ops is one of the reasons editors and viewers alike find the org of little use. The hobby might be alive and well elsewhere, but that's because the communication continues in those places. Here? Not so much. You have a better chance of getting a famous director to respond to a critique of his movies than you do of getting an org editor to post "I read this, just so you know."

[Taite]

There is just no way to get to the top of the lists because there are not enough opinions given. I know that those AMVs are classicals and immortals, etcblabla., but I think newage AMVs are not appreciated enough on this site. I hope you understand me. The rating systems are not trustworthy at all. Or does anybody think that these are the best 10 AMVs of all time on org?

Quoted Image converted to link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/370 ... 20List.png

In a nutshell... the site is old.

Oh I see, thought I heard that once before. I definitely agree. There is a top 10% for videos in the last 12 months but based on how little ops they get and the nature of opinions anyhow it's not really an accurate reflection. I don't know how you'd reorganize it when so little people give opinions, so yes not too trustworthy. I agree, the site is just old in general. It'd be great to talk about all the stuff we could do but that was part of the whole "redesign" thing, which will likely never happen. People just don't have motivation enough to 'modernize' anything.

It's very unlikely that you ask for something, get it, and don't read it, but it would only not be read on purpose if the creator didn't want it, which they would if they posted it asking for an opinion, no?

You'd think so. But try doing a free op thread yourself. Most people asking for ops just want the numbers that will help their vids get onto the lists. Maybe some of them do read the actual text, but they sure don't respond to it. I speak from experience. You start a free op thread, give a 20 ops, get 2 responses, and then the pointlessness overwhelms you until you go do something more productive with your time. That's the org now.

If you're giving paragraphs of criticism and spending huge lengths of times putting effort into critique and never getting responses, then I agree, that would be a waste of time. But who is doing that now exactly?

Not me. I used to. That was the whole point of doing op threads, to give detailed feedback to the creators who wanted it. To feel like I was at least trying to contribute to the org. A quick op would take me half an hour and that's not worth a few seconds to say "I'm not reading that crap" let alone "thanks for trying to care." I finally learned my lesson. If no one else is doing that now, either, then there's probably a good reason for that.

This is all just me defending my opinion that writing ops on the org is pointless if the editors won't respond to them. I think the death of ops is one of the reasons editors and viewers alike find the org of little use. The hobby might be alive and well elsewhere, but that's because the communication continues in those places. Here? Not so much. You have a better chance of getting a famous director to respond to a critique of his movies than you do of getting an org editor to post "I read this, just so you know."

Yes, unfortunately like you said opinions aren't the main thing anymore and when it died a lot of people found little left in the org, which is true, there's not enough feedback in general, opinions, comments, QC,s whatever, there's just not enough activity on this site and general flow of ideas.

But I have started a free op thread myself, that's where I've given my opinions, it's active right now. That's where 21+/34 have replied. I'm not sure how long ago you tried, but I converse with the majority of those who receive opinions from me, and even if it's a mere "thank you you gave me a lot to think about" or something, it's worth it to me. All of my opinions range anywhere from 400 words on the low end (a couple shorter for amvs with consistent problems that didn't need as much detail) up to 1000+, from the few that I checked since I didn't want to go through each one. I don't give BS opinions, and I can get pretty harsh, but even those I'm brutal with I have received replies. I honestly don't know why you don't get any now, considered you're ranked one of the "most useful" on the org, or if you've even tried recently (seeing the opinion thread, no), but I can see how that would apply to you having seen how opinions fell off personally, and things are definitely different now from when you started, but from what I've seen it's nearly the same, just a way smaller percentage of people.

Youtube isn't a great venue for really detailed critique, and the org could be that site, if it weren't for the fact that youtube was just more attractive and interactive anyhow and most people just want to do their thing instead of get advice, which I completely understand. For those who do want it, the few that come to the org, they've been on my thread, so this whole thing of not getting responses, I don't know about that, at all. There's a lot more than just criticism to amvs though, and sites like youtube have shown us that. So being a site that's main dish was the "opinion system," it's only natural that as editing became less technical in general (just my theory) and the opinion was less 'necessary' or 'wanted', that the org became slower.
But, in general, if people don't respond to anything, then I agree there's no point, but I'm saying from my experience I've always gotten replies.

[Mr Pilkington]

So, if the problem is lack of reviews, how is a novel in the forums going to help? Why not apply that energy into getting JUST ONE ebay editor to sing up and then giving them an equally long positive critique?

Like........... that's the logical option or something.
Lead by example.

[trythil]

It'd be great to talk about all the stuff we could do but that was part of the whole "redesign" thing, which will likely never happen. People just don't have motivation enough to 'modernize' anything.

The problem isn't motivation; I have motivation enough to do many things. The problem is that there are things to do that interest me more, so I am doing those instead.

Those other things interest me more for a number of reasons, but here are a couple of the big ones:

• A new site will likely not Save The Community. What you will see is a short-term spike of interest followed by the same slow decline that you are seeing now. The one way to permanently accomplish this goal is to make AMVs interesting enough to warrant their own community (i.e. something that isn't just lost in the swamp of YouTube and other such sites), and empirically, they aren't interesting enough to keep most people around for more than a decade.
• I have lost my belief that this community is something worth saving.

Nevertheless, there is plenty of opportunity for someone else to pick up the project where I left it off.

[FarmXD]

all the great old editors are gone...

I'm still here babe.
Here, a shark