Anti-Trolling rule needs to take affect more?

[Lirinis]

Lol, we on our side tend to think about contests at conventions as not real contests because of loose uncompetetive rules, lack of decent rivals, and laughable ways of judging.

I have respect for well run contests regardless if at a convention or online. I sure hope that view is not seen as a general view of Contest at Cons.

Vlad

That's a deep-rooted stereotype around here and with a certain basis under it, but obviously on the conscious level it's not hard to see that both types of contests can be a win or a fail. When you post photos of packed AMV rooms, I always start craving I could be there. Coordinators who put their all in the event surely deserve respect. Sadly, far too often that is not the case.

[BakaOppai]

"I'm putting on a show for the audience. Editor ego and butt-hurt don't really enter into it.".

There has to be a balance I say when it comes to judging and how contests are run, but that is just me and find that a few obnoxious trolls sour the experience for everyone in the amv community. Public pressure and calling people can work, but in regards to Baka Oppai I have heard he doesn't give a rip about it and the AMV community for that matter (what I was told). He trolls his videos even when they are not eligible... you know what how about create something new.

Then again when I started making AMVs back in the 90s and even if I didn't pay nice with some creators I showed them respect. When I had a video that won a couple times I retired it and made something new.... why? because I didn't want to be a DICK and because the video won / was recognized. Trolling a video to every con so I could win every award would be borderline narcism behavior in my book. Also like I said it was about respecting the other editors... not being me me me look at me!!!

Since, I've been called out, I guess I better defend myself... As an "outsider" to this community, here's my point of view.

It was winter break, 2012. I was a freshman in community college, bored out of my mind. I was tired of playing games, I was tired of watching random tv shows, I wanted to make something. I came across "The Nightmagi Cometh", while randomly surfing youtube and decided this is cool, maybe I can make these too. So I got Sony Vegas, learned the basics, watched a few tutorials and made a video. The video took the full week of winter vacation, but when it was done, I felt good. I made something, I spent a ton of time and actually made something. This is amazing.

Now I knew my video was bad, it looked nothing like the amvs on "BestAmvsOfAllTime". Making this video was fun though, so I wanted to make another, and if I was going to make another, it better be better than my first one. So I learned more about Sony Vegas, learned about blur transitions, about plugins, about masking and completed my second video.

I looked back, at my second video and thought, "this is still nothing like the best amvs, but I think I'm getting better". So I decided to breakdown what made those amvs so great. My answer? More Masking. So I attempted my third video, this time using the same song as The Nightmagi Cometh, daymanstep. My goal: improve my transitioning, masking, and lipsyncing. During the time I was making my third video, I made a friend who was into cosplaying. I told him about my videos and he asked if I was going to submit my next one to Fanime 2013. Now before this, I'd never heard of anime conventions. Anime was just something I watched, I didn't know that people actually held gatherings for them, not to mention that they had contests for these videos I was making.

I can submit my videos to contests? I probably shouldn't submit my videos though, there's no way that they're good enough. My friend kept pushing me to submit them and I decided, why not? So I finished my third video with a contest in mind. I submitted my videos and Fanime finally arrived. I couldn't go, since I had exams coming up (and was also a little reluctant. an anime convention? they must be filled with weirdos).

I asked my friend to record the crowd reaction of my videos. And when he showed me, I had a huge smile on my face. A dark room full of people watching my videos. They were laughing, they were clapping. I felt good. Then I found out that my third video got Best Action by the Judges & the Audience. This is fun, I want to get better, I want to keep going.

From there I wanted to submit to more contests. I discovered animemusicvideos.org and thought it was outdated, but if it had the information I needed, it would have to do. The next contest was AX 2013. My third video made the preshow, but not the finals. I was disappointed. Why did these videos make it into the finals and not mine? What was the difference? So I studied the finalists and learned from them. How did they do this effect? How did they do this transition? How did they make their video flow so well?

From there I continued to make videos & submitted to every contest I could, reading the rules three times over for each one. I would win some and lose some, but everytime I lost, I learned from it. I would try to be as unbiased and analytical as I could, and continued comparing my videos to the winners.

A year passes and the AX 2014 deadline is in a week. I read through their rules and see that they have a freshness rule so I could only submit my latest 2 videos (with max entry of 3). I decide to make a last minute entry into "Parody" and got 3 videos into the AX 2014 finals. Holy crap, I think I really am getting better. I was worried about getting 1 video into the finals but 3?! I told a few friends and we decided to go to AX that year. None of us had ever gone to an anime convention before so we had no idea what to expect. We left our city at 11pm and drove for 5.5 straight hours to the LA Convention center. We waited in line, went to different panels and walked around until it was time for the AMV Contest to start.

The hall was huge. I hadn't slept in over 12 hours and was overwhelmed. My videos were going to be shown here. I couldn't believe it. The Contest starts and the speakers are deafening. Videos are played and people cheer and clap for each one. Then we get to my first video. My stomach tenses, what if no one claps, what if no one likes it. It ends, and people start clapping, some start cheering, some start yelling. It was the best feeling in the world.

I had started this hobby on a whim, and it got to the point where others were praising me. I ended up winning some furniture , and checked the AX 2014 thread. Now before this, I rarely read the forums of The Org and was in for a big shock (as troy would say, "Drama "). I was accused of submitting "Troll Videos", videos that have won multiple awards, pandering to the audience, and getting cheap laughs.

Was I wrong? Were my videos bad? Was I not supposed to send my videos to every contest I could? I thought the point of a contest was to compete with other videos. I was confused. What had I done wrong. I started to feel like I didn't deserve to win.

Then I thought back to the contest. The audience loved it, was something wrong with that? No.
I'll continue making videos, continue to submit winning videos, continue to get better and learn from my losses until I'm satisfied with myself. I don't care what these people on that forum say. As long as I make a video that I'm satisfied with, I'm sure other people will love it too.

you know what how about create something new.

Contrary to popular belief, my life doesn't revolve around AMVs. Flooded with engineering classes and tutoring people in math, I've only had a few hours every week to edit. Making a "good" AMV takes months, even longer when I'm trying to learn something new.

Then again when I started making AMVs back in the 90s and even if I didn't pay nice with some creators I showed them respect. When I had a video that won a couple times I retired it and made something new.... why? because I didn't want to be a DICK and because the video won / was recognized.

You've been editing longer than I've been alive, but I don't see how you think you showed them respect. If your video is good enough to keep winning, then it should keep winning. By removing your video from contests you're slapping the other editors in the face.
"I've beaten you a few times so I won't submit anymore. I know my video is better than yours, now you can win." How is that a contest? You're going to pity other editors and "let" them win? No. If they want to win, they have to make a better video, it's as simple as that. Not everyone wins a gold metal in the Olympics.


Regarding the topic of this thread, yes I think freshness rules are good. Limiting videos because they won a certain number of rewards however, seems wrong. A contest is just that, a contest. I understand this is a site for editors, but these contests aren't for us, it's for the people who love anime. By "dumbing down" the competition, you're lying to the audience.

You show them subpar videos saying these are the best videos competing to win, when in reality the bar is much higher. If someone at a convention went to an amv contest to learn what an amv was and they saw subpar videos, they may think "oh, so its just anime clips set to a song. Ok" (Excluding premier videos in this context). But if the videos competing have won awards before and compete they may be inspired to create their own.


This post probably will get me a lot of flack on this site, but I don't care. I've been openly criticized, so now it's my turn.

[Kimberly]

lots of stuff

you go, glen coco

[Mr. Fuzzyflippers]

[Mr. Fuzzyflippers]

Spoiler :

Quoted Image converted to link:
http://i.imgur.com/F7VyGem.jpg

Sorry for double post, this is just a joke, not trying to attack you directly

[BakaOppai]

Spoiler :

Quoted Image converted to link:
http://i.imgur.com/F7VyGem.jpg

Sorry for double post, this is just a joke, not trying to attack you directly

LOL. Amazing

[MaboroshiStudio]

Just because a video wins doesn't mean it is a great video or more deserving... nobody will confuse Transformers as a great movie even if it is wildly popular. You almost act like you obtuse to the fact that not everyone is trying to be a fan pandering slut... I find making fan catering videos is the easy way / serving up what you know the audience wants.

You miss the point completely but your post is a good read...

For MTAC I am going to have 2 amv contests to address these issues... like I said find a balance.

[BakaOppai]

Just because a video wins doesn't mean it is a great video or more deserving... nobody will confuse Transformers as a great movie even if it is wildly popular. You almost act like you obtuse to the fact that not everyone is trying to be a fan pandering slut... I find making fan catering videos is the easy way / serving up what you know the audience wants.

You miss the point completely but your post is a good read...

For MTAC I am going to have 2 amv contests to address these issues... like I said find a balance.

Lets not talk about Animu Stew, if that's what you're referring too (of course I'm going to make something I think people would laugh at, that's the point of comedy..).
I'm curious about your definition of "fan catering videos". Would you consider Vivifx's "Ship Happens" fan catering because it references different social media sites? What about Rider4Z's "The Optimist" because it uses One Piece, the most popular anime in japan? What about the song? If I use a popular song would you consider that fan pandering? How do you know if I'm catering to the fans, I could just like that song.

So would that mean you only appreciate the AMVs on unpopular anime with unpopular songs?

What about Studio Ghibli AMVs? I saw that you made one, does that mean that you were pandering to the fans? Probably not. Why? Because you could have just liked the anime and decided to make a video on it.

Please explain

[MaboroshiStudio]

Just because a video wins doesn't mean it is a great video or more deserving... nobody will confuse Transformers as a great movie even if it is wildly popular. You almost act like you obtuse to the fact that not everyone is trying to be a fan pandering slut... I find making fan catering videos is the easy way / serving up what you know the audience wants.

You miss the point completely but your post is a good read...

For MTAC I am going to have 2 amv contests to address these issues... like I said find a balance.

Lets not talk about Animu Stew, if that's what you're referring too (of course I'm going to make something I think people would laugh at, that's the point of comedy..).
I'm curious about your definition of "fan catering videos". Would you consider Vivifx's "Ship Happens" fan catering because it references different social media sites? What about Rider4Z's "The Optimist" because it uses One Piece, the most popular anime in japan? What about the song? If I use a popular song would you consider that fan pandering? How do you know if I'm catering to the fans, I could just like that song.

So would that mean you only appreciate the AMVs on unpopular anime with unpopular songs?

What about Studio Ghibli AMVs? I saw that you made one, does that mean that you were pandering to the fans? Probably not. Why? Because you could have just liked the anime and decided to make a video on it.

Please explain

Eating breakfast and then off for my awesome morning commute... I will pm you / take this offline.

Like I said I am going to be having 2 contests at MTAC to address the views in this debate.

[Gene Starwind 21122]

I don't have an issue using popular stuff, or popular music. I have done that before in the past. I do agree videos that people work on should be played at a contest. However when it is the same videos over and over again for 4 months in a row, then that's when it is an issue. Other peoples work can not get out there because the same videos have been on the circuit for so long.

So that's why I created Battle of the Greats so videos that have been out for a while with multiple awards can compete in it to determine who is the best and it frees up space in the main AMV Contest for other editors or newer videos.

That's the thing I was having a problem with. Not only as an editor but as contest coordinator.

I know this will be discuss more at AWA. It is nothing personal against any editor here.