Recruiting from The Tube

[Nya-chan Production]

I kind of agree there. Ironic responses to n00bs on forums are fine, they at least leanr how to manage them. But reviews and OPs are meant to be self-improving device (and I've found most of my OPs to help me pinpoint good and bad spots in mah vids) and it's kind of sad that some people abuse it.

Even though there's probably nothing that can be done with it, it just depends on individuals :/

[JaddziaDax]

Actually I would say that the feedback i get here and on the toob is about even when it comes to negative/positive feedback that is unhelpful. My comments are from the reactions I get from people who can't handle even constructive feedback and 10 of their friends jump on me and ask me why I watched a video I didn't like (in which the answer usually is "because someone sent it to me").

[dazza1008]

I kind of agree there. Ironic responses to n00bs on forums are fine, they at least leanr how to manage them. But reviews and OPs are meant to be self-improving device (and I've found most of my OPs to help me pinpoint good and bad spots in mah vids) and it's kind of sad that some people abuse it.

Even though there's probably nothing that can be done with it, it just depends on individuals :/

Ironic? You mean not all "sugar-coated positivity"? Yes, I agree that responses can be slightly harsher to acclimatise them.

True about the individuals - it's just that after two or three of the same kinds of responses, people can infer what the whole community is like. (I did ^^; )

Actually I would say that the feedback i get here and on the toob is about even when it comes to negative/positive feedback that is unhelpful. My comments are from the reactions I get from people who can't handle even constructive feedback and 10 of their friends jump on me and ask me why I watched a video I didn't like (in which the answer usually is "because someone sent it to me").

Yes, but is that now and also when you first started? I don't know - you could have been quite technically proficient when you started, and thus avoid the scathing feedback here. (yes, there are people who go around slamming others on the Tube, but the majority is people who give positive comments) And with what you said about the 10 friends - it just goes to show that people on the Tube have different standards of what's appropriate/expected in comments - so to allow people from the Tube to improve and also for us to gain more members, safest to adjust to them a bit. Because hands down this place has a higher standard and can teach a lot. Otherwise they won't learn and there'll be more crappy AMVs coming out because they don't know any better! Noooooo!

(I know they generally don't think twice about quality of footage - one person uploaded my AMV, but instead of following the link in the description to download from here, they'd used a hypercam and reuploaded the YouTube footage - not to mention chopped my name off and took credit for making it. XD)

[JaddziaDax]

oh no my first videos are total crap, and on my first opinion i got ripped a new one, but I knew how to look through all the bitterness and snark and find what i needed because there actually was good advice in it...

I'm not even bitter or snarky with these people and they jump on me,

take for example: I mentioned to one person that she needed to clean up her masks and fix the color on some of her clips (she was trying to do a "crossover" video and one was bright and colorful while the other was desaturated) I got chewed out that I didn't know what I was talking about and she made it like that on purpose... which then turned into a bit of tube drama and like 5 of her friends jumped on my comment telling me that if I didn't like her video I shouldn't watch it... I didn't say her video sucked or that she should die in a fire or anything else flamey, I just mentioned things that would have improved her video.

And that is not the only time it's happened either O.o

Then theres the other thing where you tell a person how to improve and they give you a million and a half excuses as to why they cannot do that (even if the solution is free, doesn't require much hd space or whatever) - granted I've run into this situation here, but it seems to happen more often there...

I've noticed due to this attitude I find over there I don't really want to hand out con/crit even a little, because I don't know who I will be wasting my time on, or who is going to have friends who will gang up on me for zomg not liking something...

which goes back to my original statement that I only try to bring editors over here that I think can handle the crit and who i think could benefit from the community here.

[Kionon]

This is going in circles.

I wrote an new response and then realised it was just repeating what I had already said.

[dazza1008]

I knew how to look through all the bitterness and snark and find what i needed because there actually was good advice in it...

Glad I did that too.

take for example: I mentioned to one person that she needed to clean up her masks and fix the color on some of her clips (she was trying to do a "crossover" video and one was bright and colorful while the other was desaturated) I got chewed out that I didn't know what I was talking about and she made it like that on purpose... which then turned into a bit of tube drama and like 5 of her friends jumped on my comment telling me that if I didn't like her video I shouldn't watch it... I didn't say her video sucked or that she should die in a fire or anything else flamey, I just mentioned things that would have improved her video.

Yep - it's amazing that some people think that a video HAS to be perfect in order to be enjoyed, which stops people from learning/being open to helpful advice. It's just amazing. And frightening. (I heard in Japan, each schoolkid had to get up and mention points they could improve so they would be most helpful to society - they get self esteem from how much they adjust, not whether they are 'perfect' - compared to Western culture, where it would lower one's self esteem to mention points for improvement, because we have this need for 'perfection')

I did an AMV comp at the tube once - on a whim, mostly - because I noticed that in some comps many people were saying "what do you think of my vid?" So I made it a feedback-oriented comp. So every vid entered would get a public comment mentioning only the good points of the video (to avoid people getting suicidal or whatnot) and it was optional to have extended feedback, if asked. (I used the opinion format at the org) Even with the obvious hints and actually having the opinion format posted on the comp vid, some were offended by my giving rather low scores. XDDDDD (but I kept it real) And generally, the ones grateful for the detailed feedback tended to be rather skilled already (but there were exceptions either way). Thus ends this iteration of the experiment.

Then theres the other thing where you tell a person how to improve and they give you a million and a half excuses as to why they cannot do that (even if the solution is free, doesn't require much hd space or whatever) - granted I've run into this situation here, but it seems to happen more often there...

Actually, I've never had that happen to me! But I think you're more active than I am. (although once someone said "please make an AMV for me with this song" When I replied no, sorry, don't have time, and they can do it themselves, they said they didn't have the patience. XD *raises eyebrow*)

I've noticed due to this attitude I find over there I don't really want to hand out con/crit even a little, because I don't know who I will be wasting my time on, or who is going to have friends who will gang up on me for zomg not liking something...

Yes, I know what you mean - I usually do it to people I subscribe to, so I know their personalities. Some aren't open to it, so I stop. Usually the technically proficient people are more OK with it, because they're not at their limit????

which goes back to my original statement that I only try to bring editors over here that I think can handle the crit and who i think could benefit from the community here.

I'd say that with bringing editors to the forum, being able to handle the crit is a must, but even if someone wasn't able to, they could completely avoid the forums and just upload/download. Still a plus, I think.


@ Kionon: Wheeeeee!!!!

[JaddziaDax]

Then theres the other thing where you tell a person how to improve and they give you a million and a half excuses as to why they cannot do that (even if the solution is free, doesn't require much hd space or whatever) - granted I've run into this situation here, but it seems to happen more often there...

Actually, I've never had that happen to me! But I think you're more active than I am. (although once someone said "please make an AMV for me with this song" When I replied no, sorry, don't have time, and they can do it themselves, they said they didn't have the patience. XD *raises eyebrow*)

This usually comes up when I suggest that they at the very least crop their subs if they aren't going to buy the DVDs... and it's usually over Sailor Moon videos O.o

[BasharOfTheAges]

Standards apply equally to everyone - adapt or die - if you don't want constructive criticism keep it off the internet - etc. etc.

[Scaledkittah]

And it's a real shame if people are repelled by the tone of the feedback in the forums - because even though I was shocked by it at first, I have found the feedback to be helpful (from the one time I'd used AMV review plus really valuable technical help here)

So yeah, anyone who gives a negative non-specific review to an person who isn't acclimatised (i.e. a n00b), is destroying the potential of the site. (and if you don't care, that's irrelevant - the fact still stands that it's happening) Because I would like to see this site flourish as well as editors getting a step-up.

That sums up my opinion. Being a now semi newbie to AMV making I'll admit the first responses I got to my AMV's were a major turn off. And I fell in the group of people thinking that the forum goers (and the org in general) really were some rather negative elitist jerks. Ones who couldn't come off the high horses for a moment to offer some constructive advice as to how I could improve.

Course after a few more attempts I did realize that said "jerks" at times have been helpful with the few questions I've had, are that way because they've seen and made a lot more AMV's then me so far, and I know the technical side of the last few vids is a LOT better then my first ones (lookie i'm even compressing the audio now!) That and if the last one got a laugh out of Jaddzia, I'll consider that a win

Problem is there is a lot of flaming and not enough constuctive crit in my opinion. Ok ok yes it's annoying I'm sure for the older org crowd to see people ignoring the announcement rules for the one millionith time and posting a "why is it booschsack?" when the link messes up on them. But is it really so hard to take the extra five seconds to link the rules rather then flaming them? Same with people trying to post their first AMV's or the just in it for the fun crowd. I know it's an internet forum, so asking for civility is laughable at times. But if you're gonna say "it sucks" a little why it does would be nice too, little more helping, little less tearing down? I mean I'm a pretty stubborn guy and to be honest I kept up the AMV making after the first couple just to spite the people giving me insults on the org, and an equally stubborn knowing I could do better. Though i've chilled out since on that opinion, not the perfectionist streak though, specially not after witnessing the AWA 08 winners. That's my big driving force to do better now.

The big but though is I'm not everyone, and I can't help but wonder how many people get driven off from a fun as heck hobby, and this community by that inital wave of snark or newbie bashing. Or the treatment tubers get when they try to cross over.

Last time I checked too, isn't the org a place to list all AMV's? Not just the perfect ones?

[JaddziaDax]

I have a standard reply for youtube links in the announcement forum... it's pretty polite and i copy/paste it from a notepad i keep on my desktop. O.o However a lot of the time threads are locked before i can get to them