AMV Meta-Review #44: AMV Critiques

[ngsilver]

I actually have to agree with Godix's opinion about the lack of emphasis on the emotional impact a video has when the general populous decides to critique a video (at least publicly.) If myself find this fact sad, considering it IS the emotional impact which generally should have given you the need to critique. I do realize there are other reasons, but generally, you would have to FEEL strongly enough about a video to say anything about it, let along offer an OP.

I find people use the comment system as a kind of quick op, but also as a way around saying anything really useful. Too often I get nothing in my own quick comments other then perhaps a good laugh (if I'm lucky.) Though through quick comments I have received more comments on my videos then before the system was put in place, so if it truly is a good thing I can't really say. They're amusing at least.

Though the short sentience comment format seems to be more prevalent then any real concise form of criticism at least from what I can gather from threads other then my own (I generally don't participate in OP trades.)

As for myself, I tend to try to focus more on the emotional impact of a video. Each song/anime combo leaves an impression on me, no matter how horrible the editing or visual quality might be. Grant it, often times quality, editing, and even source can dissuade me from downloading a video and does often taint my view of the video as a whole. As long as I have been around the AMV scene (as a viewer nearly twice as long as a creator) I've grown to expect a certain technical quality. However this does not mean I look for effect, in fact, I pray often times that there will be little to no effects.
I of course am not perfect. I often find it difficult to say anything about a video besides the technical aspects. I find this is because I have a hard time putting my feelings down on paper. I do look at the impact of the video more and often that is just exactly what I have difficulty expressing. So often times I don't really say anything beyond enjoying a video.

In short, I too hope for at least the inclusion of an emotional impact feature to opinions, or that those making the OPs start to take that emotional aspect into account when writing their comments. By no means should the technical aspects be ignored, I mean, a lot of us also make the videos ourselves and can offer advice, pointers, and often spot problems where the general viewing public may not, so who better to offer that technical advice? But in the end the emotion shouldn't be overlooked, perhaps even to the extent that it takes more of a forefront.
If the video was too bad technically for you to really gleem emotion out of it, read the video description, try to ask the editor what they were trying to get out of the video and then compare that to what you see. Often you have to view the video multiple times to really see it. Take that into account to. If you couldn't see something the first time through but on the 10th you could, note that. It's those little things about the effect a video has that can really help someone improve their editing. Sure the technical aspect can help too, but if a beautiful video didn't have any coherence to it, it's still crap isn't it?

(and no, I did not read beyond the first page before posting this, I wanted my thoughts to be fresh. If this has already been said, well, I guess I can further double the thought ^^)

[ZephyrStar]

lol that just makes me laugh -_- if your putting somebody down you think being DESCRIBTIVE about it will HELP anything??? lol

Actually, yes. For example: "oh god u suck, your synch is way off, why didn't you synch to the more subtle hits instead of the obvious, lol lame"

What you can get: "perhaps I should seriously consider what impact synching on the sublte hits might do for my story, or the flow of my video. I might like it better, but I won't know till I try it." Try it or not try it, the choice is yours. But what if you try it, and it turns out that it's really amazing?

CRITICISM is your BEST FRIEND. GET OVER YOURSELF

lol again, have you even looked around? Criticism is a harsh thing to take, and making it anonymous (via QCs) is even WORSE. No, criticism isn't bad, but regardless of the intent, too much is too much and thus comes the reason qcs must die. I mean, who's the one that's too big on themselves, the one that can't take criticism or the one that just won't stop?? Seriously, we don't need another hero so stop trying to be one.[/quote]

Criticism is only harsh if you take it personally. You said yourself that you don't care what people think, so why should you care about criticism? I'll tell you a story. I had a class in college, desktop publishing. Fairly simple stuff, design an advertisement for a magazine, full page. I did a job that at the time I thought was awesome, I did it fast, and I printed it and called it done.

When I showed it in class, I realized how hard I had failed. Everybody else's stuff looked amazing. You could tell they put hours into their work. I had put maybe an hour. My professor calls me aside after class, and asks me to describe my thought process on putting it together. I decide not to bullshit her, and tell her straight up that I thought I had it aced and that I was wrong.

So then she tells me straight up, "Ok, the layout is not balanced, you would do better to maybe center this up, maybe change this font here to this color to compliment your photo. What if you used a different font? Maybe you have too many fonts, the rule is to kinda stick to 2 or 3, more is too hard to read. Colors too, this needs to be more simple and not so flamboyant. Less is more, in this case. You might want to clean the edges of the photo as well, where it's cut out. Take this home, rework it, and bring it in tomorrow."

Now, did you think any of what she said was harsh? She told me after she said all that how she was not downing me as a person, or calling me lazy, but that the level of quality I was used to was not what a professional level entailed. She asked me if I wanted to be a professional. I said yes. So then she said, "Well, in order to do that, you'll have to get used to people critiquing your stuff and take it with a grain of salt. It's not an insult to you, it's not even an insult to your work. It's how you get better."

That has served me really well in life.

Now, if you don't want to be a professional, that's fine. But don't gripe about it when somebody comes along and suggests something you could do better. Do you want to be a professional?

[Kionon]

God knows I hate QCs because of how they affect the CRITIC, and not really the criticised, but as far as the criticised...

Now, if you don't want to be a professional, that's fine. But don't gripe about it when somebody comes along and suggests something you could do better. Do you want to be a professional?

Fokkin SIGNED.

I have had a similar situation with my broadcast instructor. "I'm going totally rape this now. You understand I do it because I want you to get better, and I think I can show you how. Even if we disagree, you'll have to learn to deal with criticism from all around you in a newsroom, even if you don't consider them credible. Show me a 'completed' broadcast spot, and I'll show you talent that complains about it!"

[Otohiko]

But again, don't you think that the limit of usefulness/appropriateness of such criticism is, in fact, the goals of the editor in the first place?

That said, it's probably good if some people learn to recognize the difference between critique/criticism/attack. And certainly having a thick skin is helpful. But I still wonder sometimes just how far we should go with 'professionalism'. To me, while a lot of it does make sense, trying to parallel classroom experiences in a professional context to feedback on hobby videos in a hobby context feels a bit unfair. Not that both can't be learning experiences, but perhaps it's not quite the same thing after all...

[Kionon]

To me, while a lot of it does make sense, trying to parallel classroom experiences in a professional context to feedback on hobby videos in a hobby context feels a bit unfair. Not that both can't be learning experiences, but perhaps it's not quite the same thing after all...

I suppose that in that case perhaps the editor would be better off writing a disclaimer in the video notes or the credits or in the announcement thread to the tune of:

"Hey, this is just a hobby, I don't take seriously. Just tell me if you liked or if you didn't. I don't really care about anything else."

That's perfectly fine, I'd be more than happy to tell person what I think in one sentence.

However, I do not approach my AMVs differently than I approach my broadcast work as far as seriousness is concerned. I edit, whatver I edit, because I love to edit. AMVs, news spots, political ads. All very different, but I like to produce. And the kills learned from feedback on one can inform the others in at least a limited capacity. So gaining comprehensive feedback on my AMVs makes me a better professional, and critiquing the work of other editors within this hobby makes me a better critic of my professional peers.

[BasharOfTheAges]

To me, while a lot of it does make sense, trying to parallel classroom experiences in a professional context to feedback on hobby videos in a hobby context feels a bit unfair. Not that both can't be learning experiences, but perhaps it's not quite the same thing after all...

I suppose that in that case perhaps the editor would be better off writing a disclaimer in the video notes or the credits or in the announcement thread to the tune of:

"Hey, this is just a hobby, I don't take seriously. Just tell me if you liked or if you didn't. I don't really care about anything else."

I'd actually appreciate their honestly and kindly not download it. "If what you're showing me isn't worth your time, why should it be worth mine?"

[meleechampion]

Crap, I had no idea I would take so long to read through the log that there'd be 6 pages of replies.

I'll go back later, but not having read what everyone else has said this is what I think:

What you're trying to create with the AMV Review should be different and standout. I think opinions have there place and it was a good idea to leave one on the video you're going to discuss in review. If by doing so beforehand thinking "oh good, they'll get the technical out of the way" instead people might come to review saying "here's what I said in the opinion form" so don't assume people are going to be focused on content, design, story, or anything else the review values above technical.

In short, I agree with the consensus made at the end of the log.

Personally, I think it's awesome that we have a review that goes beyond the announcement forum's "overall hype" and the opinion form's "technical nitpick" and I just wish I could remember that this goes on Monday nights as I always seem to miss it.

[Knowname]

I'll mirror Otohiko's point just cuz... I don't wanna erase my work ~.~ but I still think it deserves to be said as a different point of view:

Actually, yes. For example: "oh god u suck, your synch is way off, why didn't you synch to the more subtle hits instead of the obvious, lol lame"

What you can get: "perhaps I should seriously consider what impact synching on the sublte hits might do for my story, or the flow of my video. I might like it better, but I won't know till I try it." Try it or not try it, the choice is yours. But what if you try it, and it turns out that it's really amazing?

you know, on the one hand that's true, but on the other hand you could REALLY do without all of those mean words...- just sayin'.

also, the pendulum swings both ways, the criticised SHOULD try what their being suggested just as the critic can try being a little more sensitive *_*

CRITICISM is your BEST FRIEND. GET OVER YOURSELF

lol again, have you even looked around? Criticism is a harsh thing to take, and making it anonymous (via QCs) is even WORSE. No, criticism isn't bad, but regardless of the intent, too much is too much and thus comes the reason qcs must die. I mean, who's the one that's too big on themselves, the one that can't take criticism or the one that just won't stop?? Seriously, we don't need another hero so stop trying to be one.

Criticism is only harsh if you take it personally. You said yourself that you don't care what people think, so why should you care about criticism?

well I'm not only thinking about myself... Yes, others do tend to take it way too 'seriously'... but isn't that what it's intended to be?? I'm sure your not compairing ppl to mass suckage just for fun... are you???

also here's an old proverb, if you can't beat them, join them. IE people are NOT gonna stop taking everything so seriously, take a little consideration to the fact. Either always be serious or make a STRONG attempt to show that your being sarcastic. You can't do that when hiding behind a qc.

I'll tell you a story. I had a class in college, desktop publishing. Fairly simple stuff, design an advertisement for a magazine, full page. I did a job that at the time I thought was awesome, I did it fast, and I printed it and called it done.

When I showed it in class, I realized how hard I had failed. Everybody else's stuff looked amazing. You could tell they put hours into their work. I had put maybe an hour. My professor calls me aside after class, and asks me to describe my thought process on putting it together. I decide not to bullshit her, and tell her straight up that I thought I had it aced and that I was wrong.

So then she tells me straight up, "Ok, the layout is not balanced, you would do better to maybe center this up, maybe change this font here to this color to compliment your photo. What if you used a different font? Maybe you have too many fonts, the rule is to kinda stick to 2 or 3, more is too hard to read. Colors too, this needs to be more simple and not so flamboyant. Less is more, in this case. You might want to clean the edges of the photo as well, where it's cut out. Take this home, rework it, and bring it in tomorrow."

that is a good learning experience and I've had times like that with my amvs... but only cuz I WANT to, she asked if you want to become profesional, if you want to learn, you said yes. But what if someone said no, not everybody comes here to learn, some come here just to have fun with their favorite anime/ music/ new toy?? would/ could you say they were wrong?? No, this is just a hobby not an institution. You, or I may WANT to become professional and stuff (personally I don't, but), but imagine coming into this thinking just 'I like anime' or 'I like music' or 'I like computers' and then your qc comes along sounding all serious and shit. There are times and people to be serious with, there are times and people that just don't need the EXTREME profesional making seriousness.

rereading this I realize that you're saying the 'suck' comment is SUPPOSED to not be taken seriously... but the rest is?? I just don't get that.

anyway, the preseding remarks (sorry, too lazy to get the quotes... my former LONG assed reply got erased so... I'm kinda' pissed atm...) were just all kinda' selfish. Grow up, selfishness doesn't work when dealing with the general public. It just doesn't, if you can't beat them, join them.

[Moonie]

I'll mirror Otohiko's point just cuz... I don't wanna erase my work ~.~ but I still think it deserves to be said as a different point of view:

Actually, yes. For example: "oh god u suck, your synch is way off, why didn't you synch to the more subtle hits instead of the obvious, lol lame"

What you can get: "perhaps I should seriously consider what impact synching on the sublte hits might do for my story, or the flow of my video. I might like it better, but I won't know till I try it." Try it or not try it, the choice is yours. But what if you try it, and it turns out that it's really amazing?

you know, on the one hand that's true, but on the other hand you could REALLY do without all of those mean words...- just sayin'.

also, the pendulum swings both ways, the criticised SHOULD try what their being suggested just as the critic can try being a little more sensitive *_*

CRITICISM is your BEST FRIEND. GET OVER YOURSELF

lol again, have you even looked around? Criticism is a harsh thing to take, and making it anonymous (via QCs) is even WORSE. No, criticism isn't bad, but regardless of the intent, too much is too much and thus comes the reason qcs must die. I mean, who's the one that's too big on themselves, the one that can't take criticism or the one that just won't stop?? Seriously, we don't need another hero so stop trying to be one.

Criticism is only harsh if you take it personally. You said yourself that you don't care what people think, so why should you care about criticism?

well I'm not only thinking about myself... Yes, others do tend to take it way too 'seriously'... but isn't that what it's intended to be?? I'm sure your not compairing ppl to mass suckage just for fun... are you???

also here's an old proverb, if you can't beat them, join them. IE people are NOT gonna stop taking everything so seriously, take a little consideration to the fact. Either always be serious or make a STRONG attempt to show that your being sarcastic. You can't do that when hiding behind a qc.

I'll tell you a story. I had a class in college, desktop publishing. Fairly simple stuff, design an advertisement for a magazine, full page. I did a job that at the time I thought was awesome, I did it fast, and I printed it and called it done.

When I showed it in class, I realized how hard I had failed. Everybody else's stuff looked amazing. You could tell they put hours into their work. I had put maybe an hour. My professor calls me aside after class, and asks me to describe my thought process on putting it together. I decide not to bullshit her, and tell her straight up that I thought I had it aced and that I was wrong.

So then she tells me straight up, "Ok, the layout is not balanced, you would do better to maybe center this up, maybe change this font here to this color to compliment your photo. What if you used a different font? Maybe you have too many fonts, the rule is to kinda stick to 2 or 3, more is too hard to read. Colors too, this needs to be more simple and not so flamboyant. Less is more, in this case. You might want to clean the edges of the photo as well, where it's cut out. Take this home, rework it, and bring it in tomorrow."

that is a good learning experience and I've had times like that with my amvs... but only cuz I WANT to, she asked if you want to become profesional, if you want to learn, you said yes. But what if someone said no, not everybody comes here to learn, some come here just to have fun with their favorite anime/ music/ new toy?? would/ could you say they were wrong?? No, this is just a hobby not an institution. You, or I may WANT to become professional and stuff (personally I don't, but), but imagine coming into this thinking just 'I like anime' or 'I like music' or 'I like computers' and then your qc comes along sounding all serious and shit. There are times and people to be serious with, there are times and people that just don't need the EXTREME profesional making seriousness.

rereading this I realize that you're saying the 'suck' comment is SUPPOSED to not be taken seriously... but the rest is?? I just don't get that.

anyway, the preseding remarks (sorry, too lazy to get the quotes... my former LONG assed reply got erased so... I'm kinda' pissed atm...) were just all kinda' selfish. Grow up, selfishness doesn't work when dealing with the general public. It just doesn't, if you can't beat them, join them.

Whoa! Ben you are actually making sense

[Kionon]

[quote="Knowname"]that is a good learning experience and I've had times like that with my amvs... but only cuz I WANT to, she asked if you want to become profesional, if you want to learn, you said yes. But what if someone said no, not everybody comes here to learn, some come here just to have fun with their favorite anime/ music/ new toy?? would/ could you say they were wrong?? No, this is just a hobby not an institution. You, or I may WANT to become professional and stuff (personally I don't, but), but imagine coming into this thinking just 'I like anime' or 'I like music' or 'I like computers' and then your qc comes along sounding all serious and shit. There are times and people to be serious with, there are times and people that just don't need the EXTREME profesional making seriousness./quote]

If they said no, I would not be inclined to help them any longer. They're not "wrong" to want to enjoy whatever they are doing, but they are wrong to expect that I should pay attention to them after an initial bit of feedback and determining they don't care. This site is what it is, and this community is what it is, and this art form is what it is not just because some people said, "hey I like anime and music, let's put 'em together" but also "hey, I want this combination to be good." Feel free not to care about your work, and I'll feel free not to care about it as well. There's a good feeling in a job well done. Of knowing you accomplished a personal best. That you could have taken the easy way out because "you're not a professional" or "this isn't a job" and said "oh, hell no, this means something, and I'm going to make sure I give it my all." I'm going to stick with that approach, thanks.

(COUNTDOWN CREDITS, 500 HOURS IN MSPAINT? Why? Because I could!)