AMV Meta-Review #44: AMV Critiques

[Knowname]

ok just to make sure I really deserve this praise ^_^

If they said no, I would not be inclined to help them any longer. They're not "wrong" to want to enjoy whatever they are doing, but they are wrong to expect that I should pay attention to them after an initial bit of feedback and determining they don't care. This site is what it is, and this community is what it is, and this art form is what it is not just because some people said, "hey I like anime and music, let's put 'em together" but also "hey, I want this combination to be good." Feel free not to care about your work, and I'll feel free not to care about it as well. There's a good feeling in a job well done. Of knowing you accomplished a personal best. That you could have taken the easy way out because "you're not a professional" or "this isn't a job" and said "oh, hell no, this means something, and I'm going to make sure I give it my all." I'm going to stick with that approach, thanks.

(COUNTDOWN CREDITS, 500 HOURS IN MSPAINT? Why? Because I could!)

so... you ignore them because they're right?? Saying something like using the excuse that this is just a hobby doesn't put them in the extreme where they just don't CARE about their work... I mean it could, Youtubers don't CARE about their work... but. For instance me, and Moonie if I recall right, and others, would just rather not have it followed by all that persecution, all those mean words ^_^. If someone says 'correct your aspect ratio, here's how' than I'd probably do it/ or at least take it into consideration if I ever use the footage again. But is someone says 'DUDE! your shit looks like squished sand-dollars! You should know how to fix that, my baby SISTER doesn't even make that mistake! But I'll tell you how to fix it cuz your obviously too retarded to figure it out yourself...' well *I* would take that, but you'd better believe that you'd hear about it in my journal *.* anyway. But aren't they both saying the same thing? Sure, just one is a little bit nicer than the other one...

also your looking at this from only your ABSOLUTELEY EXTREME POV. Not that that's wrong, I mean you are you, and you share my passion for amving (remember my rant about how incredibly closely you clone those remakes you do? You do a good job) so I can see where your coming from. But again, your only thinking of your-self, everybody else is not your problem. That's why I asked you, are you really asian?? (I mean, culturally, not your heritage) Cuz that sounds like a big buddhist thing. Well anyway I like to think I am also responsible for other people just as other people can ROYALLY fuck up my plans, so the best way I see of avoiding that is to take responsibility of their actions.

Getting back to the first line, you must admit that you take these things to extremes, therefore you expect others to as well. Well they don't. They don't just think 'I'm gonna be the very best I can be or not care at all' they tend to think 'well I like this so... hopefully it will lead to something else I like ^_^'. Immagine their surprise when they meet you.

[ZephyrStar]

I know many people do this just for fun or just for a hobby, and that's why if I offer a QC or an op, I try to do so in the most sincere fashion. Never would you hear me tell someone "they suck." But, if their work could use improvement, and especially if they're trying to pawn off something with no effort and expect me to think it's the most amazing thing I've ever seen, you better believe they're going to get some "how to fix it" or "how this could have been maybe done better" comments.

But the fact is, if they're gonna swim with the big fish, they're gonna get eaten. You just can't help that, might as well learn from it.

[Kionon]

so... you ignore them because they're right??

I don't honestly know what you're asking. I don't see how they are "right" or "wrong." What is it that you think I said?

I do not ignore newbies at all, but I do want to limit my discourse with people who are no longer new to the site and do not want my feedback. Why should I care about providng feedback to someone who is not going to listen or improve based on anything I tell them? I have other Quixotic battles to fight much more important that trying to convince such people that entering the discourse is important to their own continued education. I've the first female president to help elect from 7000 miles away. I'm going to pick my battles on a web forum for adding pop music to asian cartoons carefully. I don't have time to try to "show someone the light" after they've spurned my previous help. If they don't take themselves seriously, why should I?

Saying something like using the excuse that this is just a hobby doesn't put them in the extreme where they just don't CARE about their work... I mean it could, Youtubers don't CARE about their work... but.

When they use it to deflect criticism, that's exactly what they're saying. "I only want the warm and fuzzies because I didn't care enough to do something worth genuine accolade."

For instance me, and Moonie if I recall right, and others, would just rather not have it followed by all that persecution, all those mean words ^_^. If someone says 'correct your aspect ratio, here's how' than I'd probably do it/ or at least take it into consideration if I ever use the footage again. But is someone says 'DUDE! your shit looks like squished sand-dollars! You should know how to fix that, my baby SISTER doesn't even make that mistake! But I'll tell you how to fix it cuz your obviously too retarded to figure it out yourself...'

If you are suggesting that I flame unnecessarily, or at all, you are sadly mistaken. I may be bullet-point quick about some issues, aspect ratio as an example, but I never use vocabulary that could be considered "persecution." And your claim that it does, if such is your claim, is just silly.

also your looking at this from only your ABSOLUTELEY EXTREME POV. Not that that's wrong, I mean you are you, and you share my passion for amving (remember my rant about how incredibly closely you clone those remakes you do? You do a good job) so I can see where your coming from. But again, your only thinking of your-self, everybody else is not your problem.

This is a community. A collection of individuals with shared goals, shared aspirations, shared cultural values, and shared standards. That's what it means to be a community. If you do not wish to meet this definition, that's fine, but don't be surprised if I treat you as if you were not part of the community. You aren't; it was you who elected not to be (you is proverbial here, not personal). That's fine. I have people who want to be part of the community to help.

Getting back to the first line, you must admit that you take these things to extremes, therefore you expect others to as well. Well they don't. They don't just think 'I'm gonna be the very best I can be or not care at all' they tend to think 'well I like this so... hopefully it will lead to something else I like ^_^'. Immagine their surprise when they meet you.

I expect that one pursues those activities that they are passionate about. I do not consider this an extreme point of view. If you're not an editor, that's fine. Be a painter. Be a writer. Be an athlete. Be a chef. Do what drives you. I'm not telling anyone not to try editing and see if they like it. But if they have tried, and they realize they don't have a passion for it, it's time to move on.

Yes, indeed, let's imagine their surprise when they realize they need help, but with that help they can do amazing things they never thought they could.

[Nunchuck]

I would almost say that the whole point of an opinion is to be non-technical. A machine can tell me if my AR is wrong. A machine can tell me if my audio is soft or has static. Why would I want to join a community only to have machines talk to me? I want opinions. I want an audience. I want to know if someone laughed. I want to know if they cried. I want to know if I succeeded in entertaining. These are all subjective, they are all opinions, and yet it is the most precious thing a community can offer you. Not only shoudl you treasure it, but the community should treasure it, promote it, and everyone will have a better time.

I mostly agree with that statement. I, myself, treasure the opinions I received and value anything, which was given to me even the qick comments. I even somehow like what godix wrote me in his rude way of saying what he means. I don't, on the other hand, agree with giving response to the video quality. I think that the AMV should be seen as an peace of art and even an peace of art should have certain quality standards. Newcomers are most likely not aware of how a community member reacts on a wmv AMV. Thus we should tell them how we like the frame of the vid to be. If the creator is interessted in opinions of the community he joined he will most definately value those advices for the future and try his best in the future.

What I, and there I agree with most of the members, value the most is the advice on how I can improve in what I was trying to do. Advices which tell me that there should be emotions in a romantic AMV rather than a lot of special effects are those which help newbies the most in my opinion. Most of the new members, who haven't edited a lot value the effects the most, because that's what impressed them most likely the most in the past and thus think that every other guy in this community think that way, too. It's in our best interest to show them how we feel about what they have done and give them a statement on how we felt about their piece of art <o>

[Knowname]

But the fact is, if they're gonna swim with the big fish, they're gonna get eaten. You just can't help that, might as well learn from it.

lol that's cruel ~.~ I mean it's true, but it's cruel, blah blah blah preachity preachity /not gonna go into it ;p but you can help that, just don't cannibalize...

I do not ignore newbies at all, but I do want to limit my discourse with people who are no longer new to the site and do not want my feedback. Why should I care about providng feedback to someone who is not going to listen or improve based on anything I tell them?

Weren't you the one that brought up all this stuff about duty? They don't refuse help, they just want it in their language. At least the complaints that I hear, and the complaints that I don't hear... pretty much don't happen ^_^ apparently. I'm not centering this on you (as I'm getting the fealing your a little more rational than some others... at least with those you like), but just try to talk to them on their level, not your own.

If you're not an editor, that's fine. Be a painter. Be a writer. Be an athlete. Be a chef. Do what drives you. I'm not telling anyone not to try editing and see if they like it.

no, but your not helping (them) either.

OK my feathers are unruffled lol, Quadir can have his thread back -_-

[u_queen]

First of all I want to thanks Quadir for inviting me to participate. And I want to apologize for not reading the entire thread; my head is going dizzy by now O_O

My initial plan was to send feedback for every vid I watched for one month.

That proved to be insanely over-ambitious. Total crazy talk, because it took me anywhere from a half-hour to an hour to send feedback about one vid.

At first I decide to do it so; well, I actually kinda do it and my hard drive is full of will-be-op-someday videos. But when I first start I got several issues that are not related in the guide given by the org.

As I've read several posts and I see the thread comes form the technical-fanatical opinion to the difference between art and technique skill. I don't want to debate about it because I think it's a topic over used as the question: “What's first, chicken or egg?” But I can't ignore the cracks on the opinion form we use in the org.

First of all, in my personal opinion numbers are classifiers tools, we're talking of a hobby not our daily work or school where a grade can fit us in a social level. Internet is a different world, and if we don't know the person we can rate him/her good or bad just by looking a bunch of numbers given sometimes under personal criteria.

Good/Bad points: Most of the times I just jump both. As several philosophic theories assume, the good and the bad are just points of view. Ok, we can say "the good point is that I liked this" "The bad point is that you fail in that part". But what should we said if the video is made by a pro and you simply can't found anything bad? Or vice versa, the video is totally a fail and you watch it and redo it just looking for a good point?

General Comments: Is the one I like the most; because the author of the pinion can give a free analysis of the video inside his/her own point of view without any restrictions. Here is gotten the most honest feedback, even if it's a "ZOMG U RULEZ 4EVAR, U VID IS DA BEST" and if that makes growl your ego (talking about the self-esteem) and motivates you to continue doing video then the feedback fulfill its duty. But talking about the "more detailed opinions" it comes to the subjective point of all the opinion system.

Main Entry: opinion
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: belief
Synonyms: assessment, assumption, attitude, conception, conclusion, conjecture, estimate, estimation, eye*, fancy, feeling, guess, hypothesis, idea, imagining, impression, inclination, inference, judgment, mind, notion, persuasion, postulate, presumption, presupposition, reaction, say so, sentiment, slant, speculation, supposition, surmise, suspicion, take*, theorem, theory, thesis, think*, thought, view, viewpoint

Main Entry: feedback
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: response
Synonyms: answer, assessment, comeback, comment, criticism, evaluation, observation, reaction, rebuttal, reply, retaliation, sentiment

What comes from it? We've been tricked! All this time we assume that the opinion form was for giving people advices for improve their work (technically or artsy talking) when the world "opinion" only asked us for our own reaction about what we've recently seen.

But forgetting the literal meaning of the word; if we consider "opinion" and "feedback" as the same we should consider also both when giving advices or impressions about a vid.

To finalize, I found that in the org most of the times it's forgotten the subjective aspect of appreciating an AMV. Before star flaming we should ask us if the creator is new, it's a veteran or a noobtuber (as many people here name them). It's not the same a guy who can't afford anything else that a windows movie maker and the most recent anime raws that the ones that have a basement stuffed with DVDs and two or three monitors to work with. We should consider that if the creator has just bought a new editing program he/she obviously put extra effort in the video (learning takes time, nobody borns knowing everything). Or if the creator has made more than ten videos with the same thematic it looks like he/she don't want to improve nor have an extended opinion/feedback, or asking us if a person that hasn't logged in since last century deserve an opinion. The fact is that we should also look for the human factor in each video, because as I said in the beginning, it's a hobby for spend our free time and forgetting the stress of dairy life; not promoting it.

[JaddziaDax]

I wish I had a basement

[kowaiyoukai]

Just a few thoughts, which may seem jumbled, random, or re-stated. You can ignore this post if you like. ^_^*

I want to be an author, so I'm more of a fanfic kind of person, and I don't focus on my AMVs in terms of being the BEST TECHNICALLY EVER, if you know what I mean. But both AMVs and fic have something in common--the people who make them. There are dabblers, perfectionists, and everything in between.

If someone puts out a high-quality product that has clearly been worked over and over to get everything exactly right, with great visuals and timing and technical stuff that just makes you sit back and go 'wow', that person obviously is a perfectionist. Someone whose AMV has obvious problems in it, regardless of how large or small those issues are, is obviously a dabbler.

All AMVs and fics have some form of technical aspect and point/moral/story, and they also leave you with a certain feeling when you're done.

Okay, so what's my point? My point is that people who are perfectionists are looking for a different type of review than people who are dabblers do. A dabbler is more interested in knowing if his or her point got across and what the feeling is that the viewer/reader is left with. Not that a dabbler doesn't care about the technical aspects, and not that a dabbler wouldn't like to improve his or her skills, but generally speaking (from what I've seen and gathered), most dabblers tend to just make AMVs/write fics for kicks and they don't really want someone pointing out all the technical flaws that they probably know are there and either don't know how to, or don't care enough/want to, fix.

In other words, a perfectionist needs all sorts of feedback, most likely yearns for absolutely any type of information about their AMV/fic because that's what they're all about. Perfectionists might be going into a similar career and attempting to hoen their skills, or maybe they're doing it for contests, or just because they love it, but most of all they're looking to make the best AMV they can. Dabblers just want to make the AMV they thought about, and they're generally happy or at least satisfied with the outcome, regardless of any technical aspects that can be sub-par to what perfectionists put out.

So, when an AMV comes out, it makes more sense to me to take the AMV-maker into consideration. Is this an AtomX or Premonition Studios AMV? Or is this an AMV from someone named Jessica1289? Has the maker been around a while, or are they just starting out? The things you point out to newcomers are going to be very different to what you say about AMV-makers who have been around the block several times, so to speak.

Also, as a final comment, I really think that one of the most overlooked things in any AMV review I've read is the overall feeling you're left with after watching the AMV. I have some AMVs that are horrific in terms of technical aspects, yet they make me fangirl every time I watch them. Other AMVs I have are absolutely stunning visually, yet I almost never watch them because they leave me with a sense of "effects, solely for the sake of effects".

Okay, I'm done with my two cents. ^_^*

[Knowname]

I don't suggest you skip over that post -_-... at least the first two paragraphs.

[BasharOfTheAges]

I don't suggest you skip over that post -_-... at least the first two paragraphs.

Except for the fact that for every person that honestly thinks that, there are a dozen more that only use it as an excuse after the fact to deflect criticism.

It all really comes down to whether or not you believe in equality - people being judged by what they do, not what they believe or who they are.