Overly saturated colors after compressing, etc.

[BasharOfTheAges]

The aspect ratio is still not 100%s for any of these files, even if they are improved, leading to the question of...will the aspect ratio always look "off" on my computer? I've got five different media players on my PC, not counting all the video editing software, and NONE of them are capable of properly displaying AMVs encoded for convention purposes?

That's perfectly normal - that's why you have convention versions that'll be played on a DVD player through a projector that works just like a TV (.9PAR is good) and online distros that will be in a suitable 1.0PAR format.

[DriftRoot]

The aspect ratio is still not 100%s for any of these files, even if they are improved, leading to the question of...will the aspect ratio always look "off" on my computer? I've got five different media players on my PC, not counting all the video editing software, and NONE of them are capable of properly displaying AMVs encoded for convention purposes?

That's perfectly normal - that's why you have convention versions that'll be played on a DVD player through a projector that works just like a TV (.9PAR is good) and online distros that will be in a suitable 1.0PAR format.

Well, what I have now is definitely an improvement, though they're still not playing correctly on my TV...BUT I don't have much choice here, so let's all cross our fingers and hope this works out ok. Chances are slim this AMV will make it as far as a projector anyways, so all this grief could be for nothing. Still educational, though. I wish Scintilla had put a note in his encoding for conventions guide that your video will not look right when it's done MPEGing.

Or perhaps people who are heading to conventions should already know these things. Well now I do, so I guess that means I'm all set. heh

Thanks to everyone for their input on this problem, it will be most interesting to see what happens when all is said and done.

[Scintilla]

The aspect ratio:
Prior to running the Lagarith AVI file through TMPG, it displays the same level of aspect ratio squish as the MPEG-2s I was making before.

It should.

Once TMPG processes it, however, the aspect ratio does improve. I'm guessing this is because TMPG adds the 3:2 pulldown.

Okay, I have to cut in here: "3:2 pulldown" has nothing to do with aspect ratio. What it refers to is the telecine process, duplicating frames to bring a video that's 24fps progressive up to 29.97fps interlaced. (If you encode a progressive MPEG-2, you set this flag so that the player will telecine automatically on playback if the display requires interlaced video.)

The aspect ratio is still not 100%s for any of these files, even if they are improved, leading to the question of...will the aspect ratio always look "off" on my computer? I've got five different media players on my PC, not counting all the video editing software, and NONE of them are capable of properly displaying AMVs encoded for convention purposes?

Well, are they all using the same MPEG-2 decoder filter? I don't know if you tried playing it back on your DVD-playing software yet, but if nothing else, that <i>should</i> display the proper aspect ratio.
I know I saw someone upthread say that WMP6.4 only corrects the aspect ratio if you view it fullscreen, which sounds right to me from what I remember.

[DriftRoot]

The aspect ratio:
Prior to running the Lagarith AVI file through TMPG, it displays the same level of aspect ratio squish as the MPEG-2s I was making before.

It should.

Once TMPG processes it, however, the aspect ratio does improve. I'm guessing this is because TMPG adds the 3:2 pulldown.

Okay, I have to cut in here: "3:2 pulldown" has nothing to do with aspect ratio. What it refers to is the telecine process, duplicating frames to bring a video that's 24fps progressive up to 29.97fps interlaced. (If you encode a progressive MPEG-2, you set this flag so that the player will telecine automatically on playback if the display requires interlaced video.)

The aspect ratio is still not 100%s for any of these files, even if they are improved, leading to the question of...will the aspect ratio always look "off" on my computer? I've got five different media players on my PC, not counting all the video editing software, and NONE of them are capable of properly displaying AMVs encoded for convention purposes?

Well, are they all using the same MPEG-2 decoder filter? I don't know if you tried playing it back on your DVD-playing software yet, but if nothing else, that <i>should</i> display the proper aspect ratio.
I know I saw someone upthread say that WMP6.4 only corrects the aspect ratio if you view it fullscreen, which sounds right to me from what I remember.

Sorry about the 3:2 pulldown folly, as you can see I still get all messed up when I deal with this stuff. Regardless, what is TMPG doing to my squished files (squished is such an untechnical term, but...) that's somewhat correcting this issue? I fed it a straight AVI file that was already resized and it did SOMETHING to it, in terms of improving the aspect ratio, but it couldn't do the same thing with an AVS file that was asking TMPG to resize etc. on the fly while it encoded my video.

The aspect ratio is off everywhere I play it - on my DVD software on my PC and on my TV. Sometimes it looks as bad as the Lagarith AVI I fed it, sometimes it looks so close to my original footage that even I have a hard time telling it's still off, but it's not 100%. I don't know what decoder filters they're using, either.

*sigh* At any rate, thanks again for everyone's input. It looks like I'm not doing anything wrong per se, that it's a playback issue, so I'm just going to have to cross my fingers and hope for the best.

[Qyot27]

but it couldn't do the same thing with an AVS file that was asking TMPG to resize etc. on the fly while it encoded my video.

TMPGEnc shouldn't be doing any resizing at all. Flagging yes, resizing no. Basically feed it presized video (which includes Lanczos+AddBorders commands in a script; that's still AviSynth doing the resizing and border-adding), TMPGEnc will add the correct 4:3 flag to correct for the 3:2 ratio video that you gave it, and then the playback filters should recognize said flag and play it back correctly.

In the end, I think the only way to really find out the underlying problem is if we were there in person to see what the setup is doing. Second-best scenario would be just having a small section - 10-15 seconds or so, I'd say, just to err on the side of caution - of the lossless copy of the video posted to see if we can duplicate the problem(s) on our setups. For the record, I use TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 and I've never witnessed these problems with my own videos - including the Advent Children short I edited about 2 years ago (and subsequently remastered without issue as well).

[Qyot27]

Second-best scenario would be just having a small section - 10-15 seconds or so, I'd say, just to err on the side of caution - of the lossless copy of the video posted to see if we can duplicate the problem(s) on our setups.

Additionally, seeing if it's just a filter issue would be solved by snipping a small amount of the MPEG2 out and posting it along with the lossless segment - DGIndex can save sections out of MPEG2 streams, as can TMPGEnc.

[DriftRoot]

Second-best scenario would be just having a small section - 10-15 seconds or so, I'd say, just to err on the side of caution - of the lossless copy of the video posted to see if we can duplicate the problem(s) on our setups.

Additionally, seeing if it's just a filter issue would be solved by snipping a small amount of the MPEG2 out and posting it along with the lossless segment - DGIndex can save sections out of MPEG2 streams, as can TMPGEnc.

This AMV is for a competition, and after explaining the problem to the contest coordinator, they have offered to try their hand at encoding the video for me (if in fact it's a finalist). So, if this does happens, it will be interesting to see if they get better results than I did. It does seem to be a playback issue, though. I've noticed I occasionally get the exact same color shift on my lossless AVI file in certain players. That's the really weird part - none of these problems are at all consistent.

I don't think I can upload snippets, otherwise I'd do so in a heartbeat - I'm on dial-up at home and it's been extremely flaky recently. I really have no way of transferring large personal files, either, because the company I work for (where I use their DSL to get around) blocks all kinds of transfer/storage sites. I really appreciate the offer, though. It would be nice to confirm if it's just me/my computer/my files or not.

[DriftRoot]

I thought the curious would be interested to know that something weird really IS going on with my video footage. Not just the particular AMV I've been panicking about - everything bit of AMV-destined footage I've collected (which in and of iitself might send me into hysterics, I've got quite a collection!!)

Someone else tried their hand at making the uncompressed AVI file into an MPEG-2 and they got the exact same results I did - bad color shift, terrible video quality, the whole nine yards. Not good - this means it's not just me/my computer, it's a universal problem with the footage. (This was the AMV contest director of Anime Boston - I think it's safe to say he knows what he's doing and from what I understand, he has no idea why it's happening either.)

The plot thickens - I'd reported that the results were incredibly inconsistent and varied from player to player, moment to moment. This AMV (yes, it's 'Bustin) also found its way into the hands of a different AMV contest director, who said he noticed no problem with the video whatsoever. He compared it to the MP4 version of the AMV - which looks exactly the way it's supposed to - and said there is a slightly warmer tone to the colors in the MPEG-2, but otherwise everything looks equitable. Eh, wha?? HEH?? said I. So he sent me his MPEG-2 and it looks just like the one I sent him - think something downloaded from Utoob and then blow torched. (I'm going to have to trust that when he says "slightly" warmer he's not downplaying the color shift and doesn't need glasses to see that the video quality is extraordinarily poor.)

In a fit of pragmatic rage, I ran all kinds of other footage (both anime and live action) through TMPG to try and narrow down where the problem lies. To make a very long story very short, I can go all the way back to loading a D2V file into TMPG and still get a color shift and poor video quality.

Then I swiped someone else's AMV and slapped it into TMPG and I got a perfect MPEG-2. No color shift, no change in video quality - it's indistinguishable from the original. Can you hear my screams of frustration circumnavigating the globe?

This MPEG-2 issue seems to be based on something that goes all the way back to when the DVD files are ripped - and I don't know what could be going wrong THERE because that's the most straightforward, easy, can't-mess-it-up stage in the entire AMV-making process. Of course, I have no idea if the VOBs themselves are the problem or DGindex, so to be extra helpful, I copied this from one of the D2Vs - anyone see anything suspicious?

Stream_Type=1
MPEG_Type=2
iDCT_Algorithm=6
YUVRGB_Scale=1
Luminance_Filter=0,0
Clipping=0,0,0,0
Aspect_Ratio=16:9
Picture_Size=720x480
Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970 (30000/1001)
Location=0,0,3,608c2

Ideas? Comments? Suggestions? Uploading a whole VOB file and its accompanying D2V file for examination is not possible for me, sorry. This computer of mine has its issues, but it was just reformatted a few months ago so there shouldn't be anything weird going on. I've never tried making MPEG-2s before, so I have no idea when this problem might have first "arrived." It would be interesting to put in another graphics card and see what happens...I've got a spare around here somewhere if someone thinks that's worth a shot.

[Zarxrax]

Did you try any other mpeg2 encoders yet? If nothing else, most editing software has one built in.

[DriftRoot]

Yes, I've used two different ones, no difference.

As I said, I can take someone else's footage and convert it to MPEG-2 without any problem. Other people can take MY footage and convert it to MPEG-2 and get a huge problem. It's only my footage that reacts badly to MPEG, it's something IN my footage that's getting in there right from the second I either rip it off a DVD or run it through DGIndex.