Why do we have to convert 25 fps to 23.97 fps ?

[mirkosp]

This is how I know things, so chances are I am wrong to very wrong, but throwing it out there, worst case there'll be laughs and corrections. So well, from my understanding...
The main animator does the keyframes of the animation, and might also fully animate the most important sequences. Then inbetweeners draw some extra frames to make the animation smoother for the scenes of which the animator only did the main keyframes. At this point you don't have a real "animation" yet, since the drawings are on their own, and they are put together and animated at the PC. Once there, generally you get the actual animation done at 7~13fps, with some of the most important scenes that might actually be animated at 23.976 (these things are depending on the budget too). And since this all is put together in NLEs/post-processing software with a 23.976 timeline (or potentially something else, read on), the pans/zooms and other computer-aided effects and animations go at 23.976, whereas the drawings have a lower framerate. That should be how it's done. Then again, depending on the series, you might be getting a VFR thing which has parts going at 23.976, others at 29.97, others at 59.94 (as in, fully interlaced with each field unique), etc... there are many kinds of footage. Luckily these days finding 23.976 progressive on BDs (or 29.97 telecines, on DVDs) seems to be the most common situation, but there still are a few exceptions... which tend to be the hardest and most annoying ones to deal with, especially if there happen to be things going at different speeds in the same sequence (eg: the animation was 23.976, telecined to 29.97, and it has full field interlaced credits rolling at 59.94 on top).
Hopefully I mostly got it right, so now to wait for Hatt to correct the rest...

[post-it]

.. converting files and wondered .. !

120fps is a hack used for faking VFRaC ..

Thx
This is perfect;
.. one very long thought .. sorry for the lengthy scope:
This is right at the heart of a question I had for almost five years.

My Overview (background of logic/understanding) of this problem:
. I grasp the concept of Variable-Length Video Frames and how that
would make video-files smaller in size while keeping the Video-Audio-Sync
alignment look/seem natural-looking. ( the ART of Illusion -- as it is sometimes referred to. )

My question:
. Is there a computer program and/or piece of video editing equipment currently made/created
which can separate the video frames and fields one-by-one without duplicating any fields and/or frames?

reason for question being asked:
. I'm looking for a program which will give me things frame-by-frame
without any-duplicates -- reguardless if the Audio matches or not!
(( a frame-by-frame sequencer to which video fields are NOT the editing factor. ))

? what would this solve ?
. if I were going to piece things together and Freeze-Frame something, it should be
the Editors choice as to how-long "that frame" remains on the screen - not the choice
of the original encoding programmer.

. What I'm looking for is something "which can bring things back to its origins",
back to the created scene's. Is there a program out-there which will do such a
thing as I am describing?

-- just curious

[mirkosp]

Avisynth can do that just fine, actually.

[post-it]

Avisynth can do that just fine, actually.

0_0 .... ^_________^ .... please show
me this magical, totally "really-needed"
script which alludes me to "no-end!"

Student Ready, Willing, and clueless in scripting

If you would be soo kind, mirkosp-sama

[Kazend]

Hi there,

http://i25.servimg.com/u/f25/11/05/55/21/bd_pal10.jpg

[MOD258: Image converted to link due to excessive height.]

[mirkosp]

Well, deleteframe and duplicateframe are probably the things you're looking for if I'm understanding correctly what you asked. If you want to keep the audio sync then you'd be using freezeframe instead. But generally, all the internal filters for timeline editing will be useful depending on what you're trying to do exactly. As for the separating fields without duplicating them, I assume you're referring to something like separatefields? Although perhaps you're referring to bob. OTOH, if what you wanted to do was making a VFR encode, then just have a read here ─ dealing with vfr isn't hard if you don't have to splice clips together in a NLE.

[post-it]

beginning reading ... I'm not worried about the Audio Portion, I can encode that later.
What I need is something which can ignore which video field it is ( as long as the heart of the scene is not being duplicated. )

That is what I'm looking for is a frame-by-frame sequencer that will not "keep" any duplicate images.
( all of the frame "displaying-length's" should all be the same. [[ this is usually a control within the Codec itself. ]] )

That's what I'm looking for. ( in theory, sound simple enough. )

[mirkosp]

Then you probably want to look into the 2pass vfr with tivtc... just don't use the timecodes file it'll create. I think that should give you the result you're looking for.

[post-it]

hmmm . . something seems to be missing .. maybe it hasn't been made yet.
Actually, I'm looking for a filter which will EraseDuplicateFrame(s) and leave the
original single frame relating to a sequence of events along a non-sync-time-line
leaving "only" the sequence of events.
( sorta like a Frame Comparer that deletes Duplicate Frame regardless of the Audio sync.
( The Audio is not part of the equation in my line of work. ))

. An example would be ..
1) you have video coverage of an accident.
2) you need the sequence of events.
. . what you do not need are frame repeats; I waist waaay to much time trimming those frames from the "events"

Its hard enough to write an Actuarial Profile of a scene and then have to correct things frame-by-frame "not only
adjusting for jitter" but actually noticing "if that frame is a duplicate to the one before it" within those
corrections! I guess what I'm looking for is a Scene-Detection-that-Compares-Frames-and-Deletes-Repeats filter.

.. T_T .. does that description make any sense in English?
( I know it sound correct when I say it and someone repeats it back to me. )
.. Does this kind of filter even sound plausible?

[mirkosp]

Yes, I know what you mean. You can't do this thing directly (or rather, I don't know how, if there is a way), hence why you'd be doing a 2pass like if you were to do a VFR encode. Making a VFR encode will effectively delete the duplicate frames, it'll just remember in a timecode file for how long they are to be shown, but if you ignore the timecode file, you can just get the output you want.