Why do we have to convert 25 fps to 23.97 fps ?

[Snowcrash]

Hi there,

I edit already for 2 years now. But I still read the excellent guide of Ermac, AbsoluteDesitiny and Zarxarx.

Like I am from Europe where the standard is PAL, I got few question about the 25 fps framerate. Apparently it seems that this framerate is “difficult” for AMV-makers. But why?
According to the guide, we should deinterlace first, and then convert 25 fps to 23.97 fps with the script MRestore().

You can read the guide's part concerning PAL here:

Spoiler :

If you have a full field blended source, which is usually the case with PAL footage, you will probably just deinterlace. Another option you have with PAL footage is a function called MRestore. MRestore should ONLY be tried if you have PAL footage with a framerate of 25 fps. MRestore will attempt to convert the material back to its original framerate of 23.976 fps while removing blended frames. MRestore can be used like so:

MPEG2Source("C:\yourfolder\blah.d2v")
TDeint(mode=1)
Mrestore()

MRestore may often look worse than simply deinterlacing though, but it doesn't hurt to give it a shot and see if you like how it turns out. It has some settings that you can tweak, so in order to get the most out of it, you should read it's documentation.

But honestly when I am working with my DVD:
1/ I just deinterlace my source with a simple filter (sometimes not if the DVD source is progressive).
2/ I keep the framerate at 25 fps, why I should change it? 25 fps is the standard of Europe.
3/ What is the interest to get back the original fps of an anime?

And I always get a good source for the editing.

Does someone have few answers to help me understanding this concept of 25 fps to 23.97 ? ^^

[Mister Hatt]

You don't have to at all and anyone who says you do is wrong. However, most anime is 24-1% and is converted badly to 25fps in which case it does need to be reversed. Luckily for lazy people such as myself, it's impossible to get 99% of PAL stuff back to original FILM rates and you are better off buying the R2j DVD instead.

Spoiler :

Doing an AMV with a PAL DVD is just stupid. Even if your country uses PAL, if you care enough to at least read the guide or think about conversion, then you should also know not to use PAL in the first place. You say you get a "good source" but if your source is PAL, then either you're blind or you don't speak English well enough to know what "good" means.

Somewhat related, the guide is old, outdated, and wrong.

[Kariudo: Personal attacks /off topic stuff hidden]

[mirkosp]

Hatt is sadly right, PAL footage is generally bad and you should be looking elsewhere (japanese import is a nice solution quality wise but decidedly expensive as far as prices go ─ american import is lower quality but should be more affordable). There are 2 cases in which working with PAL is fine:
1) If it was directly sped up to 25. You can slow it back down to 23.976.
2) If it was euro telecined, be it hard or soft (if soft you're luckier, though). In this case it's just about doing an inverse telecine.
Unfortunately, unless you're dealing with a rather old source (in which case you'll find yourself dealing with case 1), very few sources fall into either of these categories, as blend decimate/random field drop are the most common behaviour in hardware encoders ─ or at least the cheapest/oldest ones that tend to be used.

[Zarxrax]

Yes, obviously the solution is to tell him to throw his dvds away and buy new ones /sarcasm

The reason that it is suggested that you try to convert to 23.976 fps, is because that is how it was originally designed. Anime comes from Japan which uses the NTSC standard rather than pal. In it's native format, anime is typically 23.976 fps, and then telecined up to 29.97 fps.
When its converted to PAL, they typically take that telecined 29.97fps version and convert the framerate to 25fps (as mirko explains above). This makes it a complete mess.
Using mrestore is an attempt to undo that mess. (though probably it wont help much)
Deinterlacing is conceding that nothing can be done about the mess.

[mirkosp]

Using mrestore is an attempt to undo that mess. (though probably it wont help much)

I've got better results with srestore than with mrestore, but it still is far from being able to use a clean copy...

[Snowcrash]

Thanks for your replies.

Actually I understand what you said : anime is originally in 23,97 fps, then converted in 29,97 fps (because NTSC is the standard in Japan).
So the purpose to get a good DVD source is getting back to the original framerate.

But for example, I will ask for 2 videos I made :




In the two cases I kept the framerate at 25 fps (it's not a problem for Android Love because Renaissance is a PAL movie), but for Appleworld I use the PAL DVD of Appleseed.

I just deinterlaced the video and kept the framerate at 25 fps. And so ? What is the problem ? Does the video look like bad (in term of video quality) ?
I don't understand why it's such a big deal to get back at the original framerate (furthermore we can see now few videos at 59,97 or 60 fps). I read the guide of zarxrax (yes Mister Hatt I can't read english and I am blind :p)

[Kionon]

Appleworld seems very blurry to me. The aspect ratio is also slightly wrong.

This being said, I actually liked the video, and it's a keeper.

[Zarxrax]

In the case of appleworld, I don't see any blended frames, so this is apparently one of the few cases where the conversion to PAL was handled quite well.

[Zarxrax]

To expand on that, the majority of PAL anime is going to look like this after you deinterlace it: http://a.imageshack.us/img413/7928/hamtalol.png

Which is why pal anime is bad.

[mirkosp]

Thinking about it again, I should have named it SadEuropeanHamster.png ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼