Anime Expo 2011 Anime Music Video Contest Finalists List.

[Rapter79]

21 pages to siphon through. Some things i want to comment on and i'm not sure where to begin.

1) AMV contest was great, i wasn't able to get to the pre-show because i had to man a booth, and maid cafe right after that chained into the contest, grats to the winners and overall a great show.

2)What is an AMV, and what makes a "good" AMV? I'm not sure if it was done, and my friend commented on this, as did the people in my department (Info/Con-ops) but we all are not sure how the judging was done and how it should be done.
In one post by Castor Troy about AMV "editors" he cites them as more than just editors, as producers/editors/directors/creators and general artists. Which makes me wonder about the contest as a whole. Why does one video get chosen (especially in AMTVPRO) as a "good" video. We discussed this in our department and it seems we were all in agreement that most of the videos that were finalists were not "good" because they brought nothing new to the table. Most of the videos are just edits done to a song, or in some cases (4 or so of the 6 comedy videos) carried entirely by the song. Others make no sense unless you watched the Anime itself. of the 5 people i know who haven't seen Summer Wars said "i guess it would be good if i had seen the Anime" and i tend to agree. Does this mean that the video is not "good"? No, it was fantastic, but it was just a montage of the movie to a very well selected song, not something i would consider a AMV. In this regard why are things DQ'd for technical reasons or mislabeling of categories? Also why would Fun/OVA be restricted from winning best in show?

3)AMV Chef - It seems like you got a ton of the kinks from last year worked out, kudos. And while i'm sure that Yue is going to hate me for this, but i think the audience participation was one of the better things. Its something that can ONLY be done at a panel. If i wanted to see AMV's i'd sit on my ass at home and watch them, i go to panals (and fly all the way to LA) to do stuff i can't normally do at home. Also i see you didn't comment on the last participation event of "be a man" Kareoke, which somehow you got some great performers (unlike the so-called comics)

4) AMV ad nausem. Seriously guys, there are more AMV's than the 20 i've seen in the past 3 years at the panals and pre-shows, find something different. The Audience will love it, even if you don't.

5) You all seem very disconnected from the audience when it comes to AMV's. You all have one opinion and there is a big difference in what the opinion of the audience is. Notice that everyone in the audience was screaming "Use the naked man" in AMV Chef...Which brings me to three points
1) Category names are fine. AMTV PRO is a category where we expect higher production quality, nothing more. Fun/OVA is aptly named because its a Potpourri category, something that fits no real standards and literally can be anything.
2) AMV 101: Sure you're sick of telling people how to do something as simple as hard cut, or how to do a transition, but remember, somewhere in the audience, they have no idea and they need to learn it from somewhere. An AMV 201 would be nice too, but 101 needs to be there and it needs to be static.
3) People love the same AMV's over and over, and just because you've seen it 5 times in a weekend doesn't mean that there are people who haven't seen it will know it was show 4 times prior. You do have the option of not showing up (this might be a nice way to say what AMV's will be shown in various panels)

6) Underwood, you looked like you went 3 rounds with mighty Thor when you finally turned in your brick as con-ops was shutting down, and i want to personally tell you that you did an amazing job this year. Your efforts in creating the DVD, getting all the snafu's with the re-screening being in concourse hall/video room 2 and the third video screen showing was more than you should have had to tackle but you did. And thankful 5 of us from the info booths were talking to the Video room 2 operator about the third showing so we could pass that on to the attendees. On behalf of info, thank you for all your efforts in everything (also miku was phenomenal) and take a well-deserved break!

7) Personally i would love to see more prelims for AMV contest, but i have no idea how to execute this, and i think the more judges the better. There are (if i am not mistaken) over 300 submissions and only 24 finalists. If you expect the judges to be non-biased then you would need to branch out from people who congregate this website, because that does create bias. Im not sure but how many of the 15 judges know/visit this website?

8) The AMV Room. Some are in support and others not. While people say that it would distract from the panels, i ask, "Why would you go to the panels if you can watch the AMV's from home anyway" and just have it more as a long-term panel, with introductions to the videos, sources, maybe some comments from creators etc. Maybe not all-con long but more of a 10-12 each night or something.

9) Possibility of a "help make my AMV better" panel where you dissect people (who are willing and agree) who submitted their AMV but didn't make it as to why they didn't win and tips to improve their videos, not just a technical workshop, flex that director muscle of the audience, not just the editor inside.

10) Everyone seemed very happy about the AMV's this year, and i don't think any average attendee was dissatisfied with how things were run (other than not having the Nokia theater for obvious miku-related reasons) Job well done guys.

[Castor Troy]

9) Possibility of a "help make my AMV better" panel where you dissect people (who are willing and agree) who submitted their AMV but didn't make it as to why they didn't win and tips to improve their videos, not just a technical workshop, flex that director muscle of the audience, not just the editor inside.

I spoke to Ryvannis about running a panel like this in the future (probably not next year, but maybe the year after) which covers more of the creative aspect of videos than the technical and how to help people connect with audiences and win contests.

My tentative title is "How to make winning AMVs and alienate people"
(Don't worry, I'll be changing it)

In one post by Castor Troy about AMV "editors" he cites them as more than just editors, as producers/editors/directors/creators and general artists.

Yes, that's exactly what AMV editors are. We do far more than just cut clips.

[Rapter79]

I spoke to Ryvannis about running a panel like this in the future (probably not next year, but maybe the year after) which covers more of the creative aspect of videos than the technical and how to help people connect with audiences and win contests.

My tentative title is "How to make winning AMVs and alienate people"
(Don't worry, I'll be changing it)

I fully endorse this title, please do not change it.

[Scintilla]

Does this mean that the video is not "good"? No, it was fantastic, but it was just a montage of the movie to a very well selected song, not something i would consider a AMV.

Audiences sure like those, huh?

Even in the best contests (with the possible exception of Europe), I think you'll find that most of the videos are "just edits done to a song". I don't see anything wrong with this, as it's still just as true now as it was 10 years ago that getting the right matchup (and executing on it well) can be highly effective and entertaining.

[neko kitkat]

yay my video is up on the site for download! Thank you Kazemon! she did all the work, I couldn't get the program to run right on my computer. Thank you too Hagaren Viper for converting my amv and making me an awesome banner. You didn't have to do that but I really appreciate it so much! Thank you both! *GLOMP*

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=183008

Thank you everyone! please enjoy and thanks again Kazemon and Hagaren *HUGS* (lol I don't know if you're reading this XD)

[neko kitkat]

oh Kazemon also made an announcement thread for me too XD um I don;t know what exactly its for but here is the link if anyone is interested.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... 3&t=105634

[neko kitkat]

Man, I completely failed to socialize with everyone when I saw them in RL, I was so nervous. Except Nekokitkat, who I hadn't even met before XD[/quote][quote][/quote]

lol yeah I was a nobody before this convention's contest really XD and I was really happy and honored to meet you Pink Haze! I love your work!

[Radical_Yue]

3)AMV Chef - And while i'm sure that Yue is going to hate me for this, but i think the audience participation was one of the better things.

Nah man, I think you might've misunderstood my post. I believe in and really support the audience participation xD I just thought that some ideas worked out a bit better than others That's it really.

4) AMV ad nausem. Seriously guys, there are more AMV's than the 20 i've seen in the past 3 years at the panals and pre-shows, find something different. The Audience will love it, even if you don't.

:nodnodnodnodnodnodnodnodnod:

5) You all seem very disconnected from the audience when it comes to AMV's. You all have one opinion and there is a big difference in what the opinion of the audience is. Notice that everyone in the audience was screaming "Use the naked man" in AMV Chef...Which brings me to three points
1) Category names are fine. AMTV PRO is a category where we expect higher production quality, nothing more. Fun/OVA is aptly named because its a Potpourri category, something that fits no real standards and literally can be anything.
2) AMV 101: Sure you're sick of telling people how to do something as simple as hard cut, or how to do a transition, but remember, somewhere in the audience, they have no idea and they need to learn it from somewhere. An AMV 201 would be nice too, but 101 needs to be there and it needs to be static.
3) People love the same AMV's over and over, and just because you've seen it 5 times in a weekend doesn't mean that there are people who haven't seen it will know it was show 4 times prior. You do have the option of not showing up (this might be a nice way to say what AMV's will be shown in various panels)

5) Yes, we all know that our opinion differs from the audience quite a bit, we just don't agree with the judges. For anyone who has attended multiple AMV contests, they'll know by now that the audience will vote for what they want. Sometimes it seems like there is no rhyme or reason to it, and sometimes it's obvious they just vote for the combination of anime/music they like the best.
1) The only reason we're saying that AMVTV Pro needs to have the "Pro" removed...is because the videos aren't pro :/ The category calls for videos with insane tech work and yet straight-cut and stock effect videos CONSTANTLY GET IN. So if the category will not be judged accordingly, why have it mislabeled? In addition, it would serve a much better purpose by just changing into a fun/upbeat category for all those videos that don't fit into comedy because they're just "happy times, yay!" videos but don't really fit into action either.
As for the Fun/OVA category, we're only moving to have the "fun" portion removed and leaving it as the OVA Category. That would just be to prevent submissions from being sent to a category they really don't belong in since this category is for parodies and videos that only use the music as background and have no real connection to what is being shown on screen.
2) No one has an objection to AMV 101. I'm in agreement, that especially for a con as big as this with so many new attendees every year, that it is necessary. Most of the creators are just irked about having to sit through it every year just so they can pick up their tickets That's about it. If we had an AMV 201 panel along side 101, it would provide newer "entertainment" for the editors while waiting to pick up their tickets.
Kinda like if once a year you had a family Reunion and you were forced to hang out with your senile old grandma that told you the same story every time. The entire time, you know the story by heart and you wish you could be hanging out with someone else who would tell you a new story :<
3) Yes, while we do have the option of not showing up to certain panels, some of us are actually required to go to a minimum of 4. The contest and the reshowing are biggies, especially if you got in, you don't want to miss them. And if you're supporting a friend, then you're in the same boat. AMV 101 is the ONLY place we can pick up our Creator's tickets and if you're involved with AMV Chef in any way, shape or form, you have to go there. Personally, I'm dating one of the damn judges So I wouldn't have felt right skipping out on that one.
Now the argument of "Not everyone has seen it" is used quite a bit to defend repeat showing of AMVs at cons...

4) AMV ad nausem. Seriously guys, there are more AMV's than the 20 i've seen in the past 3 years at the panals and pre-shows, find something different. The Audience will love it, even if you don't.

which is why I'm re-quoting you here. No matter what, the audience will find something to enjoy. But for the benefit of the 30+ people that are editors and their friends and the god knows how many dedicated AMV fans that go to multiple panels involving the hobby, show some new damn videos

So in short, we all know that our tastes differ from the audience, but if they're going to judge the contest solely on what the audience would like, then it's no longer a contest but just a screening of random videos.

7) Personally i would love to see more prelims for AMV contest, but i have no idea how to execute this, and i think the more judges the better. There are (if i am not mistaken) over 300 submissions and only 24 finalists. If you expect the judges to be non-biased then you would need to branch out from people who congregate this website, because that does create bias. Im not sure but how many of the 15 judges know/visit this website?

The more judges you have, the more of a mess it becomes. If you have 15 people and 5 people give a video a 5/5 because they don't know better and they think the stock effects look neat and the anime is their favorite evar, and then you have the rest of the judges give it an average score, the video will still get a score that is too damn high and likely make it into the contest.
The judging pool needs to be cut in half and more editors that are up-to-date on current editing standards need to get in on this. We're not saying there is a bias really, just that the judging is "omgwtfbbq" because it appears that the judges choice's are always rather random and don't make any sense at all.
As I've said many times over, the audience will always find something to enjoy. When it comes to the contest, they should only be viewing the best of the best and choosing their favorites from that pool. And if you've seen some of the entries that HAVEN'T made it in (FYI, when I judge anything it's entirely unbiased, including friend's videos) you'll know that something is wrong...since a large about of the best videos barely make it into the preshow, let alone finals.
As for the 15 judges visiting this site...xstylus does. Beyond that, none of the judges will even make themselves known :/

9) Possibility of a "help make my AMV better" panel where you dissect people (who are willing and agree) who submitted their AMV but didn't make it as to why they didn't win and tips to improve their videos, not just a technical workshop, flex that director muscle of the audience, not just the editor inside.

The problem with this is, even if an editor agrees to get possible negative criticism on their video, they'll still walk away all butt-hurt if it happens. :/ Believe me, I'm a strong advocator of giving negative crit and not just spewing rainbows and happiness all over a person so that they can learn and grow as an editor. But in this youtube-age of "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all," you'd get more backlash than anything else. In addition to that, if you have the wrong people hosting the panel, it could turn into a retard fest of circle jerking "I actually love your video. Oh you like mine? Let's watch our videos together. EVERYONE IS AWESOME!!!" or inaccurate information depending on the technical knowledge of the editor hosting.

Also, if it's a "help me make my amv better so I can have a better chance of getting into the contest next year" type thing, then no matter what you're screwed. It'd be sad and pathetic because you'd basically have to say "Try a popular combo and just throw random effects on it. The judges can't really tell the difference between stock and custom anyways :/ And then hop on your foot and cross your fingers because we sure as hell don't understand their choices any better than you do D: and maybe that'll help? I think?"

[XStylus]

3)AMV Chef - And while i'm sure that Yue is going to hate me for this, but i think the audience participation was one of the better things.

Nah man, I think you might've misunderstood my post. I believe in and really support the audience participation xD I just thought that some ideas worked out a bit better than others That's it really.

No disagreement from me. This year was the first year we tried any such activities and we were unsure of what would work and what wouldn't. The things that worked, we'll keep. The things that didn't, we'll refine or get rid of. And, of course, we'll try new things as well. Things don't have to be perfect so long as people are enjoying themselves, and we're glad they did.

And Nic gets major props for the trainwreck idea.

[snip] ...As for the 15 judges visiting this site...xstylus does. Beyond that, none of the judges will even make themselves known :/

I see the point you're trying to make. You'd feel better knowing that the judges were more part of the community. One issue, however, is most community members Michael would think to tap for judging duties have often entered something, making the ineligible to be a judge. Otherwise Michael probably would have invited (conscripted?) Rider and MilkmanDan to join us, for instance.

[Radical_Yue]

[snip] ...As for the 15 judges visiting this site...xstylus does. Beyond that, none of the judges will even make themselves known :/

I see the point you're trying to make. You'd feel better knowing that the judges were more part of the community. One issue, however, is most community members Michael would think to tap for judging duties have often entered something, making the ineligible to be a judge. Otherwise Michael probably would have invited (conscripted?) Rider and MilkmanDan to join us, for instance.

Well, I'm not entirely saying that I'd feel more comfortable knowing that the judges were part of the community... just that it would just be a bit easier to understand some of their choices if we knew who they were/had a general idea of their background. I know everyone keeps saying that 13/15 judges, or something along those lines, are editors that are currently in the know-how but with the selections that are continuously made, it's difficult to see that. I mean, this is the first year in a while that the contest has been logo-less/subtitle-less...

As for community judges, I don't really see how that would be a problem. I've actually been talking with Ben about it and I feel that bringing him, along with Pwolf and Castor Troy would be excellent judges. They've got an eye for quality and diverse tastes among the three of them to offer an excellent opinion on the videos for the contest during the judging process. I don't really see the need to DQ them from the contest or make them ineligible to judge based on whether or not they entered. As long as they vote unbiasedly then there shouldn't be a problem. Kisanzi and I do the same thing for NDK and I've entered the past two years, we have friends entering and he's even trying for a submission this year. Hell, most of the time I give my videos a ranking of 4/10 because, even though their mine, I feel that's what they honestly deserve. Besides, I don't see those 3 guys stamping their feet and whooping like idiots every time their own video plays so they would probably be the best choices ;p
Ben has already said he'd be down for it, same with Scott and I don't Ryan would have a problem

Or if anything, just don't let them judge their own videos. As long as the final judging is done off a general average based system and not adding up scores, it would be fine.