The Otakon 2010 Thread (OK now panic)

[Shepi]

Wow, sounds a lot like Apple's forums. There is that direct contact form on the website though, so maybe we should all email the con chair after the convention?

It's very sad that they don't care about the fan's opinions. Wouldn't you think people running an anime convention would take into consideration the thoughts and feelings of the attendees? Depressing.

Anyway, despite the fact that I doubt they will glance twice at our e-mails, I think it's worth a shot. Sending an e-mail after the con as opposed to before could prove more beneficial since we will actually have seen how Otakon 2010 played out and express our dissatisfaction.

[chui101]

Anyway, despite the fact that I doubt they will glance twice at our e-mails, I think it's worth a shot. Sending an e-mail after the con as opposed to before could prove more beneficial since we will actually have seen how Otakon 2010 played out and express our dissatisfaction.

That's absolutely possible and true, but my thinking is that you can ignore board posts more easily than you can ignore an email in your inbox.

Also, would this form be better than the contact form posted earlier?

[SailorDeath]

Anyway, despite the fact that I doubt they will glance twice at our e-mails, I think it's worth a shot. Sending an e-mail after the con as opposed to before could prove more beneficial since we will actually have seen how Otakon 2010 played out and express our dissatisfaction.

For a moment there I pictured a group of angry amv creators holding picket signs outside of the convention center voicing their complaints about the way overflow was handled.

[Squancho]

It ordinarily WOULD make sense to save criticism for AFTER con...but they're fucking up the program plenty even BEFORE it starts.

They still owe me a prize from having the closest guess of how many AMV contest entries came in - FROM THREE YEARS ago!

[outlawed]

A few general comments.

1) A few pages back someone made the argument about not sending e-mails because we might negatively impact Vicbond's status as AMV coordinator with Otakon. That argument would make sense if not for the fact Vic already comprised his position by posting here that this stuff was happening. Please keep in mind while continuing to discuss the issues at hand that from the Otakon perspective none of that information was meant for the AMV community.

2) The issues about contest playback imo should not have been brought up with the community at large. Anyone doing presentations whether it be at work, cons, or whatever will always have to deal with limitations and issues outside of their control. In my experience it's generally no value to be gained from publicly discussing something which incurs risk if there is a viable work around that can handle the issue adequately.

3) The removal of overflow is an issue that is good to bring up with the community beforehand. I can't say I would have gone so far as to quote e-mails or reference specific people. There is a lot about this that could have gone down the wrong way if some people got wound up enough to take up a smear campaign across the online anime community. The questions that should be asked for the future that no one is asking come to my mind. How much programming time did/will Otakon guarantee for AMVs? What is the hours breakdown of programming time Otakon will guarantee for AMVs in Main programming, Big Video programming room, a generic conference room, etc? Where does Otakon see AMV programming (priority, value, nuisance, unnecessary risk)?

4) Organizations, politics, and fiefdoms. Please keep in mind when formulating your arguments regarding AMVs at Otakon that when staffers become involved with any organization for a long period of time or have a position of power the organization will bear the mark and influence of those core members. It can become very much a product of it's core leadership and their vision. If several other departments were axed programming time they normally have and AMV were not to lose any the question comes to mind how do you think it makes those other people feel. As far as they are concerned they are equally important to AMVs. If those people didn't value what they were doing they would not have done the work in the first place.

So without a better understanding of Otakon and its staffers and it's hard to say if this is some case of Otakon getting too "corporate" as some people have mentioned. We don't know that they promised screen time to show Ramen Fighter. So I don't recommend people write fuck yous to the company that releases that anime. This could simply be staff group A has already given up time they felt entitled to and staff group AMV is not getting off the hook in terms of time cuts no matter how much more important it might be than 2 hours of anime that most people may have already downloaded or purchased.

Now all that said,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiLw887rss

[Adv1sor]

This is from the Otakon AMVs web page, (I've added in the bold and underline.)

"Also, entries over 6 minutes in length that do not make the final cut will most likely be bumped to the bottom of the overflow playlist,
meaning there is a chance that they will not be shown at the convention."

http://www.otakon.com/events_amv.asp

So then, since you are all upset at being denied the opportunity to see this at the Otakon overflow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCa88qzYIv8

I don't get these power struggle things. You've got someone here, (Vic), that gives so much to ensure a good show, why not just let him run with it?

[Scintilla]

This is from the Otakon AMVs web page, (I've added in the bold and underline.)

"Also, entries over 6 minutes in length that do not make the final cut will most likely be bumped to the bottom of the overflow playlist,
meaning there is a chance that they will not be shown at the convention."

http://www.otakon.com/events_amv.asp

The operative words there are "the bottom". I'm not staff, but I'm pretty sure that that bit was originally in there in case the contest got so many entries that even the overflow blocks wouldn't be enough time to show them all.

[Squancho]

My big issue is why Otakon is fucking with a formula within the schedule that's worked for years? Taking out AMV Overflow is kind of making them look like they no longer wanna be home to the premiere in AMV programming. As a result, I'm sure there will be far fewer entrants next year since, you know, those who don't make the finals will think their video won't be seen at all. Anyway, it's a better thing that we all found out before getting to the most expensive convention all year so we didn't get there expecting to have at least some people view our hard-labored-over work then find out "Oh, sorry - they decided to not have Overflow this year and we can't explain why. Otakorp business, yanno. Sowwies."

And why all of a sudden are there tech issues where there seemed to have not been in previous years? This sounds to me like someone is making excuses to bring hardships on AMV in favor of satisfying some other interest which attendees in general may not care for. I mean come on - AMV is a anime convention staple. Why would anyone wanna mess with it? It's a guaranteed draw. What's happening with the tech issue makes no sense. Again it's better we know than be led to think it's Vic's fault and that he's the incompetent one. His work at AUSA should be testament to how he can run a show.

Anyway, transparency is what prevents the wrong people from absorbing the blame for how things are going wrong. I applaud Vic for shining a light where we would have been very much in the dark and confused. I don't like the idea of paying up to $75 for a convention, going to the event I look forward to, and being left to think, "WTF is going on? Where did Overflow go and why? Why is my favorite part of THIS anime convention shrinking where it should be flourishing?"

I'm starting to get a whiff of "too big to fail" where Otakon is concerned...

[OtakuGray]

"I'm starting to get a whiff of "too big to fail" where Otakon is concerned..."

It worked with The Titanic.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Well, as a person who has run cons for 20+ years and is the Chair of a 5000 person con, there are two sides to this argument. As we are in the AMV community it always seems like the big cons are trying to crush us, however before really passing judgment it would be nice to hear the other side of the story as to why. Granted, not all cons present just reasons eliminating popular events or blocks of time, however having been in programming and even in charge if it and I can tell you it's really is a thankless job as you got all sides pocking and screaming in your ear about scheduling, cuts, etc...

Having said that however and having run cons on an executive level at the same time as running AMV contests as well as AMV rooms, I do consider AMVs at conventions a reasonably big draw as is Cosplay. So yes, indeed it should be considered an important element as such! Cons like AUSA, Sakura-Con, Anme-Evolution, Tekoshcon, ACEN (yes?) have supported AMVs in both rooms and contests and they do fill rooms! If you ever run programming, you want to have elements that fans want to fill rooms to keep the corridors more clear...

So in the end, having experience on all sides, it seems the only way things tend to change is if the support falls for something and it's missed by fans as not being there, as they are the ones that put on the pressure. I know it does not sound fair or desirable to strip out, say the overflow at Otakon, but if it is not there and the fans complain on a larger scale, that tends to get the attention of the higher up instead of just a few dozen people... If you don't believe me, just try that with Cosplay and see how much of a downpour of complained and upset people you'll get who get all vocal about it. They tend to be a lot more organized when it comes to that…

Vlad