AWA Professional Awards 2017 Category Selection

[MaboroshiStudio]

In regards to the viewing parties, discussion and review threads... I have spoken at length with several editors on both sides of the fence and have tried to make my case on how things could be better (just my opinion).

I do get concerned some editors could be influenced (unintentionally) by these various elements. I also question what is the purpose of the stream / discussion / reviews the way they are currently utilized. I simply feel if the review / discussion portion of the pro contest was post voting it would be more beneficial to the community. I was a BFA and while in college our art critiques would follow this format... we would present our work / what we were trying to accomplish as well as any issues or things we were not 100% pleased with... then our fellow classmates would critique our work / give feedback and we would have a open discussion. What I prefer about this method is that there is an actual dialog which I found very helpful. The other method would be posting our work... walking away and people post their feedback with no dialog essentially giving feedback in a vacuum.

The current method / timing we have is in a vacuum IMHO and since it is blind there can be no dialog until after the contest. Now at this stage the contest is over we are no longer in the moment and often editors have moved onto other projects. I would much rather have a viewing party after voting where people can openly discuss their work and get constructive feedback right then in the moment. IMHO this would foster a much more productive environment as well... vs a stream / discussion / review thread where an editor knows they had issues with some aspect of their video yet still feel they worked their butt off on that aspect... only to have everyone moan about that aspect without the ability to speak / discuss the issue and how they could improve it. It is like the TPS report scene in Office Space being told something you know time and time again... this gets really annoying.

At the end of the day if we want to make the community stronger and help editors the community needs to have a better dialog. So why not have the viewing parties / discussion / review portion of the Pro contest where there is a dialog... I simply think we can improve things via sequencing so we can have our cake and eat it too.

[Xophilarus]

My response to yours Maboroshi, is the same as others who have suggested waiting until after voting. Which is, people just don't feel very invested anymore. It no longer feels like we are a community during the contest, which is what makes it fun for a ton of people. I kind of wish this point wouldnt just be constantly glossed over because it is a big deal. Waiting until after voting is pretty much the exact same as not having a discussion during the contest. To me, it doesn't feel like a compromise because it only satisfies one half of the issue. It still takes away a lot of the reason we have the viewing and enjoy the contest. That's why I suggested a period of silence in the middle when we actually vote on winners but after nominations. My opinions on influencing opinions through discussion is pretty much the same as Mycathatesyou. I don't understand how discussion changing opinions is a bad thing if that isn't the soul goal. For example, during the discussion, I appreciated some videos a lot more because someone noticed something really VALID I did not notice on my own. I think THAT is a good thing. It helps us APPRECIATE stuff about videos more. There's a difference between trying to actively alter the results to get what you want or to get what a small group wants and having a collective discussion to help determine what the strongest videos out of the contest are. When we do the viewings we have certain rules and regulations in place so that no one person dominates the conversation, and we had a few moments where someone would message one of the moderators of the conversation and they would ask the person being a bit too overly vocal to tone it down a bit so others could talk.

Again though, I really would rather keep the thread to being about categories right now. This situation can be resolved and talked out whenever, but the category issue is a lot more time sensitive and is frankly a lot more important. I know I am being a bit hypocritical since a lot of this post was talking about the viewing stuff again, but I really had to point out how many points are just getting ignored, and it honestly doesnt feel like all the posts are being read, which defeats the idea of searching for a compromise or understanding.

[Ileia]

*rises from grave*
(sorry for hijacking a thread about categories but at least part of my suggestion addresses them. ^^;)


Rather than circuitous arguments about problems, I think it’s time we start focusing on solutions. I’ve got a suggestion for a way to help alleviate a lot of the dilemmas with Pro, but first I need to map out what it is that people are perceiving as current or potential problems that we need to tackle - because my suggestion is going to address all of them. These don’t necessarily reflect my own views and aren’t intended as accusations, just an overall summary of some grievances I’ve read here or elsewhere.


Category selection:
• Users suggest redundant, derogatory, or otherwise unfitting categories.
• Not selected in time to give reasonable order window for awards

Blind:
• Editors use beta-testers who are also entering Pro
• People (either within or outside of contest) reveal editors’ videos

Livestream:
• Potential bias/campaigning for videos
• Non-entrants join/view videos
• Editors feeling they were excluded from stream


Now, I think we can agree that many of these are hard or impossible to police or even self-regulate. However, I think we can also agree that we all love Pro and may need to make some concessions/compromises to make it enjoyable for everyone. Ye Good Olde Days were just as drama-ridden and argumentative as current days, so I think we can drop that argument. Feel free to peruse any old AWA Pro discussion thread and find all the same arguments about blind or bias or even the standard “you have to use effects to win”.

The thing is, we don’t need old, we need new. And I don’t mean the editors, I mean the system that we use. Here’s what I am proposing:





CONTEST MODERATORS



“Do what now?”
Yes, I realize that this would be a major change. However, I think that it could be incredibly beneficial, on a lot of levels. Here’s what they’d assist with:

• Beta Testing •
It is an essential part of the editing process for many. A second perspective can often make all the difference in a video. For Pro, it becomes complicated because when you ask someone if they can beta your video, you are outing yourself as an entrant and asking them to do the same. Some people (myself included) might not feel comfortable with asking or being asked. Additionally, sometimes many of your editing friends are already entered and you just don’t have time to keep messaging around until you find someone. You're on a deadline, man!

Rather than having a fellow entrant beta your video or foregoing anyone beta-testing at all (not recommended!), we have a small group of these moderators available to assist with video feedback prior to the deadline. For this, they would likely need to make themselves available to beta test in May, giving ample time for feedback.


• LiveStreaming •
Here I’m suggesting that AWA Pro actually have an official livestream going, advertised on the VAT page and applicable social media. One of the current complaints about livestreaming is, though a definite effort is made to be inclusive, it’s impossible to do so without knowledge of every entrant. In this case, moderators would have access to entrant names so they can all be included (and also be able to ensure that only entrants are permitted to join). Anyone who is outing other entrants’ videos, trolling, etc, can be kicked/removed/muted/whatever. There should be multiple showings to accommodate every sort of schedule.


• Category Selection •
Rather than poor long-suffering jingoro going through and veto’ing categories that are redundant, trolling, or negative, the moderators would assist with pruning the categories suggested. I don’t think we want to get rid of category selection in general, the ability to customize the contest is part of AWA’s charm, for both Expo and Pro. Instead, we just add moderators to make that process smoother.


• Assistance/Clarification •
The moderators would also be available to assist with questions about rules and essentially act as an extension of jingoro. Any serious issues will still be brought to him but basic questions and minutia can be handled quickly and without bugging him.

“So uh...who’s gonna be a moderator?”
Ideally, four or five people who are previous entrants and/or well-versed in the contest’s structure. Either jingoro can ask prospective moderators directly or make a post requesting their service.
My thoughts here are in line with how Masters works. Though jingoro has final say, he often consults previous winners to get their input.

I don’t think finding these moderators will be an issue. Say what you want about AMV editors, but when asked point- blank for help, almost all of them will assist. Each year, there are people who are on the outskirts who didn’t enter, but are still invested in the contest itself and participate in the thread discussions about the contest as a whole.
It’s important to note that moderators would not be able to enter the year that they are moderating, but would not be barred from entering in future years.

“What about FUBU???!!!”
The intention for moderators is not to sway or disrupt the contest. Because they are not entrants, they do not get a vote and will not share reviews or opinions on the videos, during the livestream, discussion threads, or otherwise. Instead, their purpose is simply to guide and assist. This takes some weight off both jingoro and the entrants themselves.


“What sort of timeline would this be on, then?”
More of a personal opinion, but I do think the deadline needs to be moved up to allow more time for each round and more time for trophy-ordering. Let’s face it - we’re all dirty, dirty procrastinators who are going to wait until the last minute to finish our videos, no matter when that date is.


• May 1st - Aug 5th - Beta Testing Availability
• Aug 6th ....ish?- Pro Deadline
• Aug 7th - 20th - Preliminary viewing - Livestreaming - Category Suggestions
• Aug 21st - 27th - Category voting/finalization
• Aug 28th - Sept 3rd - Semifinal voting
• Sept 4th - Sept 10th - Final voting
• Sept 28th - Oct 1st - AWA 2017


This leaves a lot of breathing room to give each video its fair attention. It also leaves ample time between final voting and the con. With so much required to prepare for the con, especially for entrants who also have panels or events they are planning for AWA (not to mention Expo voting for jingoro and co!), I think it makes sense to leave that time there.


SO. That is my suggestion. Each year we go through the same issues and it’s always inconclusive. I think we need a major change, one that allows editors to continue enjoying Pro in the way they want but that doesn't hinder other editors to do the same.


Does this have potential?

Would moderating present any problems?

Should I have used more emojis and bulletpoints?

Let me know what you all think!

[SeanPNG]

I think Iliea just hit the nail on the head and solved alot of problems at once. I'll admit i was leary about adding moderators when it was brought up before but this description has sold me on the idea and im curious to see Jingoro's response to it. While im sure not everyone will agree with this idea its the first time in a while someone on the thread has offered decent solutions rather than pointing out problems without offering anything (which i define as complaining). So if anyone has disagreements id love to hear them but please OFFER ANOTHER SOLUTION IN ADDITION TO YOUR GRIEVANCES
sorry but i thought id say something since i dont want the next post to be another complaint without a solution.

[AMV_4000]

There is one thing she mentioned that I don't care for... the live stream. Mainly for any entries that contain nudity or questionable content, it would probably get shut down. Plus if there is a bad connection or if the stream starts dropping frames it could impact videos. I like the idea but in practice if people just watch 1 stream and judge based on that, if there are stream issues then that may sway the vote.
Good luck policing blind judging, the idea is nice but it's hard to get behind.

[SeanPNG]

This year nudity and Graphic intensive videos were saved until the end of the stream and were not treated as mandatory (neither were any videos in the stream for that matter). As for the quality being affected by the stream it is still IMPERATIVE that the videos be watched on their own in addition to the stream to test for quality. Stream will not and should not be the only time participants view all the entries so bugs and frame drops should not affect the final impressions of the videos just because of the stream.

[Rider4Z]

I don't think Ileia was suggesting eliminating the full download of all entries. You'd still have the individual responsibility to quality check each entry.

Side note - The fact that the con is over and people are this passionate about its future says a lot about AWA

[Ileia]

Rider is correct. It would be expected (in good faith, as with every year in Pro) that you would also watch the videos on your own. The livestream would be in addition to that.

[SeanPNG]

The only thing i think im not sold on is Moderators beta testing. While i agree i'd rather have people openly offering to beta test (since it cant be policed very well either way) I'm not sure that i would want to decide between offering feedback and participating. Perhaps if people went on record saying something along the lines of "yes im willing to beta test and no,it wont affect my judgement of the videos". That way people who want to stay in the dark still can but i dont think it should affect those like me that enter this contest for the good feedback the community provides.
I know alot of this is hard to police/crack down on, but i'd much rather that the quality of this contest improve (which i know i personally will only improve if i can continue to get good feedback from others) than have the contest be more of a blind choice but watch the quality drop because those two factors are inevitably linked.
Like Rider said i love this contest and i really want it to improve and continue to produce good quality AMVs from the community, and the fact that this discussion is continuing proves im not alone in that.

-note: still like the idea of moderators in the other sections of Ilea's idea by the way

[Ileia]

Sorry, I am having trouble understanding your post. Why would an editor specifically need other entrants to be their beta testers? Why is that necessary to get good feedback?