OTAKON: BASIC AMV Rules for 2007

[dokool]

Oh. I must have misread something. Just pretend that Otakon is sooner than it actually is, or submit your video to Otakon 2008. They do take videos that are up to 2 years old, provided that they've never been submitted anywhere to compete.

That's an absolutely ridiculous idea - almost nobody edits two years in advance (at least, not conciously), and if they do Otakon's contest doesn't have a good enough reputation at this point among editors to be worth that kind of effort.

I do think that large, public prescreenings are a somewhat outmoded concept - a select panel will at least watch each video from start to finish, but a bunch of editors together, upon a horrible video coming up, will just mock the hell out of it or start their own discussion for 3-4 minutes (viz. my experience at the 2003 KoP screening - then again, we *did* have to watch the entries that were submitted through CD, Betamax, and other insane formats). There's a mob mentality that does come with the open prescreenings especially as the hours drag on, and that combined with the increased cynicism towards this contest as a whole can only do harm.

Plus, at this point, the competition is so small that changing to a panel instead of open prescreenings *would* save a ton of time. Imagine, a June deadline for the contest? Even *gasp* July!

[Scintilla]

Plus, at this point, the competition is so small that changing to a panel instead of open prescreenings *would* save a ton of time.

What? How many entries were received in 2006?

[ReligionX]

That's an absolutely ridiculous idea - almost nobody edits two years in advance (at least, not conciously)

Is it really that crazy of an idea? I already know what my Otakon 2008 and 2009 videos are going to be. I'm almost done my 2007 video. I'm also quite serious.

But of course it's a ridiculous idea. Planning for the future?! We all know the world's going to blow up in 2012, and there's no point in starting up IRAs, but I want to have an AMV revolution. i mean, why wouldn't you want to spend a little extra time working on 2 or 3 videos? Check them out every couple of months, make a few improvements, and move on. I'm probably all in my own little world on this one here. Shh.

Plus, at this point, the competition is so small that changing to a panel instead of open prescreenings *would* save a ton of time.

What? How many entries were received in 2006?

****Stats for 2006****
# of Competing Entries: 67
# of Entries Total (including non-competing): 72
# of finalists: 30
# of reviewers at all prescreenings: 52
# of votes:
0's=153, 1's=367, 2's=565, 3's=930, 4's=788, 5's=556

Highest Average Score: 4.76
Lowest Average Score: 0.85
Total Average Score: 3.06

72 entries was nothing. We got through it all in 2 sittings in 1 day. And if I recall correctly, the sun was up for all of it. But, you're probably right. If submissions are that few again for 2007... I forget which side I'm pretending to counter-point.

Maybe I'll just send my AMV by mail to Otakon 2007 AMVs, like last year, see what happens. If I don't make it to the context, I'll try a different video for 2008. It's no big deal. It's not like it's 2012.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

I honestly don't see the deadline time as the factor here.. If Otakon was in May, it would even be earlier... Do editors do this for a hobby or just to enter a contest. Yes, deadlines motivate, but if the video is not done it's not the end of the world so why all the crying?

All I hear is how AMVs are all just for the fans? And what exactly are editors? We are FANS just as much.

I think it's fair to say to be a good contest for both fans as editors and fans as watchers it's important to have some sort of balance. That not saying pre-screenings are a bad thing, but these days with digital editing being able to razzle dazzle people, editing just to win, videos that do not fit any of the traditional categories and just the shear bulk of entries, it’s getting harder with public viewings being able judge fairly... I sure that most here will agree that they would prefer that their video get a view and not be the last one shown after a long marathon after everyone is tired and less enthusiastic for instance…

Course if Otakon want to have pre-screenings for judging, then that their prerogative as no one is forcing anyone to send in a video, but as this is a feedback thread and we were ASKED for feedback. Thus it does not mean that we can't express our opinions and suggestions of what is fair to ALL THE FANS both editors and audience alike...

In the end, what's important to me is the effort of the convention and coordinators to make it the best contest for the enjoyment of the ALL types of fans both editors and watchers. Regardless of the judging, I always respect coordinators a lot more when they put the contest in front of their own interests, whether it means fighting for a big enough room or the extra effort in making sure the videos look good and play smoothly on the big screen…

Vlad

[BasharOfTheAges]

How many people actually make videos for a contest in particular though? If you're going to plan that far ahead, you'll send to another con and to hell with the contest that does not and will not fit your schedual.

In reality, some people have free time to edit only a few times a year and those times aren't realistically going to change. If the least free times happen to be around when the deadlines are right now, then the contest suffers. They can just save their videos for another contest. If that's the result the people making the decisions are aiming for, then that's what will end up happening.

[dokool]

How many people actually make videos for a contest in particular though? If you're going to plan that far ahead, you'll send to another con and to hell with the contest that does not and will not fit your schedual.

In reality, some people have free time to edit only a few times a year and those times aren't realistically going to change. If the least free times happen to be around when the deadlines are right now, then the contest suffers. They can just save their videos for another contest. If that's the result the people making the decisions are aiming for, then that's what will end up happening.

I think there's both editors who edit on their own schedule (and enter whatever contests are convenient), and editors who don't have as much free time so they edit for certain cons that they know they'll be attending - I'm of the latter group, personally.

[hackerzc]

but a bunch of editors together, upon a horrible video coming up, will just mock the hell out of it or start their own discussion for 3-4 minutes (viz. my experience at the 2003 KoP screening - then again, we *did* have to watch the entries that were submitted through CD, Betamax, and other insane formats). There's a mob mentality that does come with the open prescreenings especially as the hours drag on, and that combined with the increased cynicism towards this contest as a whole can only do harm.

I can happily say this does not happen at the Baltimore/DC prescreenings. We tell everyone ahead of time that if they have opinions to write them down and not voice it out loud as the person who's video they are mocking may be sitting right next to them. I even have the editors present give a show of hands so that everyone gets the idea that THESE are the people they will be alienating or pissing off. Everyone seems to get the point quite clearly.
This happened to me in 2002 at the prescreneings and I was ready to crack some skulls because of it. So I have a very low tolerance for it.
If if starts to happen (which it some times does after lunch break) I remind everyone.
If this is a problem at KoP then it's a matter of the host gaining control of the situation (not the prescreening method itself). I know for a fact I gave written instructions to EVERY SINGLE PRESCREENING HOST to make this point clear before they started.
It's also up to you the individual as to how much influence someone elses comments has on your vote. Do you vote what YOU actually think, or what OTHER PEOPLE think because you want to be able to say "oh yeah that's what I voted too" and feel like you're part of the group?
That being said I honestly prefer the idea of having a small group or judges prescreening, still though a lot of people in the past have said they like the prescreenings... so this is the time to say what you REALLY think.

Increased cynicism? Seems like (to me at least) it's the same amount. It's just the same people over and over again who are disgruntled because the contest is not run the way THEY want it to be run (as if complaining would lead to change.... but it won't).
And for all the negatives I hear from people about this or that, I bet that every single one of those complaining would JUMP at the chance to run the AMV contest if given the opportunity, in spite of all it's "problems".
Everyone here has this want or need to try and run Otakon's AMV contest the way they want it to be run, for whatever reason. Let's not kid ourselves by pretending that's not the case.

There is also a point where cynicism is just paranoia. A point which was crossed quite a while ago I think. Can anyone tell me why anyone should be cynical of the contest or it's staff? Seriously, let me know where I or other staffers are being dishonest, immoral, or otherwise untrustworthy as it pertains to running the contest.
Our only motive is to have the contest be as good as it can be, that way everyone can enjoy themselves, and hopefully no one has to put up with the same drama from the same people year after year about deadline this or # of entries that.
The way some of you talk it's as if you think contest staff WANT the contest to do bad. WTF is up with that anyway?

If the least free times happen to be around when the deadlines are right now, then the contest suffers. They can just save their videos for another contest. If that's the result the people making the decisions are aiming for, then that's what will end up happening.

Why would anyone choose to put a deadline at a time where it would intentionally cripple the number of contest entries that are received? Do you believe that is what we are doing, and if so why do you think that way?
You have to remember, this isn't just an AMV contest, it's a convention..... the rest of the convention does not work around the contest, the contest works around IT.

In the end, what's important to me is the effort of the convention and coordinators to make it the best contest for the enjoyment of the ALL types of fans both editors and watchers.

Beautiful....

[BasharOfTheAges]

Why would anyone choose to put a deadline at a time where it would intentionally cripple the number of contest entries that are received?

I don't know; you tell me.

Do you believe that is what we are doing, and if so why do you think that way?

Because the attitude of your responces have led me to believe as such. Lambasting those with critiques and making smug comments when someone comes in supposidly supporting being against any change kinda does that to perception.

Even if enough people come into this thread and say they think the prescreenings are pointless, i feel that they'll be canned but the deadline won't be increased. I personally have no stake in the issue - i'd prefer the early deadline because it means i could submit simulaniously to this and other major cons if i so choose. I won't though. If others think they're talking to a wall here I suggest they don't either.

[hackerzc]

Why would anyone choose to put a deadline at a time where it would intentionally cripple the number of contest entries that are received?

I don't know; you tell me.

We don't do that, but you made the accusation. I can't help but assume you believe that to be the case...

Do you believe that is what we are doing, and if so why do you think that way?

Because the attitude of your responses have led me to believe as such. Lambasting those with critiques and making smug comments when someone comes in supposedly supporting being against any change kinda does that to perception.

The attitude of my responses lead you to believe staff intentionally sabotage the contest? So because I say what I think and don't baby everyone I'm there for sabotaging the contest by making a deadline at an inopportune time? A deadline I might add, that I in no way took part in choosing?
I'm curious to know how that rational works as it makes no sense to me.

Lambasting those with critiques and those against change? Perhaps you need to read back a bit... I've agreed with those who want change and those who do not. In fact that is the entire purpose of this thread, to see what people think about what should be the same and what should change.
There is also a difference between someone "critiquing" the contest with a comment such as "I did not like the deadline so early, I would like it later next time" and "OMG! The deadline is too early you need to change it NOW or I'm not entering... and I suggest no one else enter either!" which is just complaining and borderline blackmail.
If you want to talk about lambasting, lets talk about some of the comments staff have had to deal with from a number of editors in the past.

Even if enough people come into this thread and say they think the prescreenings are pointless, i feel that they'll be canned but the deadline won't be increased.

Again, this makes no sense. If we don't have prescreenings why would the deadline NOT be moved? The entire purpose of not doing prescreenings would be to have the deadline moved. To not do so would just be idiotic to say the least, and the implication is simply insulting.

I personally have no stake in the issue - i'd prefer the early deadline because it means i could submit simulaniously to this and other major cons if i so choose. I won't though. If others think they're talking to a wall here I suggest they don't either.

For someone with no stake you sure take quite an interest in explaining how AMV staff is corrupt and somehow incapable of logical reasoning, as well as attempting to persuading others to not enter the contest as evident by your "talking to a wall" comment.
It's fairly evident that you have not given this much thought (as everything you have stated can be counter argued with actual evidence) and I can only surmise you are attempting to emit a negative response, or perhaps anger from me. Whatever floats your boat man.

Your preference to keep things as is has been noted (though you said the contrary earlier). Keep the opinions coming. Thank you very much, and have a nice day!

[ReligionX]

That not saying pre-screenings are a bad thing, but these days with digital editing being able to razzle dazzle people, editing just to win, videos that do not fit any of the traditional categories and just the shear bulk of entries, it’s getting harder with public viewings being able judge fairly... I sure that most here will agree that they would prefer that their video get a view and not be the last one shown after a long marathon after everyone is tired and less enthusiastic for instance…

Oh, you do make an excellent point. Categories are quickly going out the window. Why have one target audience, when you can reach out to almost everyone? It seems like there should be more categories with fewer videos in each category. You know, so that you can say, "These 4 videos feel very similar, so these 4 should compete." Instead of saying, "These 6 videos are conceptually the same, but have totally different feels to them."

I had the heart attack--I mean honor of having my AMV shown last, 72nd, at the 2006 pre-screening. Some people walked out before it was over, but it seemed like everyone stuck around until the last video started. Somehow, it made it into Otakon. There's no danger of having your video pre-screened at any particular time during the pre-screening.

Course if Otakon want to have pre-screenings for judging, then that their prerogative as no one is forcing anyone to send in a video, but as this is a feedback thread and we were ASKED for feedback. Thus it does not mean that we can't express our opinions and suggestions of what is fair to ALL THE FANS both editors and audience alike...

Please use this time to give us any feedback you may have before the rules are set in stone. The AMV feedback thread on Otakon's BBS can be found here: http://board.otakon.com/viewtopic.php?t=10094

I would like to further go on to say that all Basic Rules that have been set forth in the original post are to be considered current policy for the AMV contest and are not open for debate. They are meant as an aid to help editors begin their 2007 entries before the full and complete rules are released. With the exception of the AMV-Hell rule (which will likely be further expanded and wording changed), it is very unlikely that there will be any future changes to what has been outlined above.

You know what would make everyone, Fans and Editors alike happy? You know what would really please everyone? If there was some place... some sort of "anime music video organization" where everyone could get in line to see every video that shows at every contest around the country, and even in other countries. It would have to be some sort of magical place where even videos that don't make it to AMV contests could be seen.

I'm totally just playing with all of you people. I'm just trying to lighten things up. Everyone's so serious around here. This isn't a feedback thread, but the Otakon forum is down. I think it's funny.

Don't get me wrong, Vlad. By reading what you've said in this thread, and having seen your AMVs, I have much respect for you, and the fundamentals of your way of thinking. We're all on the same side, but no one can see it or no one is willing to admit it--I can't figure out which it is.