Otakon Results

[Brakus]

Although I first off don't particulary like how Brakus is saying who should've won IN HIS OPINION since it is disrespectful to those who DID win and somewhat degrades their efforts,

Understandable, since I remember someone (either here or on his LiveJournal) dissing my "I Am Fullmetal" AMV for winning Best Drama at Bakuretsu Con last year in favor of a different one that he thought he should have won. I didn't feel too good about that, honestly.

I meant no disrespect to Castor Troy at all; he made a fine video and I knew going in that it would most likely win -- and it did. I just placed a bet against the odds-on favorite. I guess my stating who should have won just shows how lousy I am at handicapping the winners of an AMV contest.

[Brakus]

It's My Life - Shi Yuan Kuang

It was submitted as serious and is actually a serious video. There may be some action or upbeat type stuff in it, but it's clearly trying to deliver a message in it's lyrics. The majority of those at the prescreenings seem to agree with that as well or else it would have been recategorized.

Suberunker, two years ago, did a serious video set to "Unwell" by Matchbox 20 to Goldenboy. He won Best Drama at ACen. Why? It practically used hardly any moments where Kintaro was acting goofy or lecherous. With the help of the "piano key" effect that actually enhanced the story of the video, it turned out extremely effective.

The gentleman that did the GTO video set it to a serious song, but not only did it stray from it being serious by including some goofy shots of Onizuka, but it also used a lot of effects that lend themselves to be used in an Upbeat video (i.e. being distracting eye-candy for the video instead of adding to or enhancing the story of the video).

Again, no disrespect to the gentleman who did the video, but it just did not belong in Serious/Dramatic. Just my opinion.

[MousePotato]

drama alert

this thread delivers, btw

[hackerzc]

drama alert

this thread delivers, btw

Hells yeah.... we be TNT! Next up is "Law and Order", followed by "Without a Trace" aka: "What happened to those contest stats I said I was going to post" (Antonio Has them, I'll have to call him).

But about what Brakus was saying, that's a totally subjective opinion. I understand exactly what you are saying. But really it's not a matter of the video being done right or wrong (you make it kinda sound like not making a video stick strictly to the mood or category is a bad thing). Maybe it's just Shi Yuan's style to do it that way, like it might be someone elses style to do it the way you are talking about.

I'm just saying that I think there is a place for cross-genre videos.

[ReligionX]

Cross genre eh? I'm not being critical or anything, I just suddenly have a question. There are a lot of interesting and valid points on this thread.

Here is how the AMV submission form goes for AMV editors to submit to Otakon 2006"

Romantic/Sentimental {Love, Affection, Nostalgia, Heartbreak}

Serious/Dramatic {Character Study, Grand Scale, Abstractions}

Action {Personal Conflict, Fast, Dark, Heavy, Adrenaline}

Upbeat/Rhythm {Dance, Lighter Action, Fun but not Funny}

Humorous/Satirical {Funny, Silly, Teasing, Making Light Of}

Uncertain or Clueless: please choose one for me.

I understand that these are "general" guidlines for how AMV creators should categorize their own videos. I was in particular confused as to whether I should go into Serous/Dramatic or Action, just based on the wording here. I whole heartedly feel that my video is more Serious/Dramatic than it is Action, in any sense of those words. So, because I felt that my video had the qualities, "Grand Scale, Abstractions, Personal Conflict, Dark, Adrenaline," I submitted under Uncertain or Clueless. I honestly don't know what "Grand Scale" means, but I'd like to think my video has it.

I'm not saying that I should have won, or anything. That's not why I'm posting right now. I'm not complaining. I just went with everyone's best judgement. I'm perfectly excited that I even made it into the Otakon contest. Take me through the process.

My question is: How did my video get placed into Action?

And while I'm at it, is there some sort of mutual exclusiveness for these categories? It doesn't make sense that there would be, because it's all subjective, but are there boundaries that should not be crossed? There's all sorts of "romance" and "sentiments" in the world, which are not limited to but include "serious," "dramatic," "action," "upbeat," and, "humorous."

This seems like it should be common sense, but maybe it isn't. No, it isn't common sense. It is subjective. So, as long as it's got some sort of overwhelming romance or sentiments, it should go there, instead of other genres. Wait, didn't I just say that this was subjective?

I mean, the Mr. Roboto video should have been funny in my mind, because every time that I hear the song, it's used in a comedic fashion. The AMV itself really was more of a dramatic character profile. How's that for Inverse-Satirical?

[hackerzc]

Cross genre eh? I'm not being critical or anything, I just suddenly have a question. There are a lot of interesting and valid points on this thread.

Here is how the AMV submission form goes for AMV editors to submit to Otakon 2006"

Romantic/Sentimental {Love, Affection, Nostalgia, Heartbreak}

Serious/Dramatic {Character Study, Grand Scale, Abstractions}

Action {Personal Conflict, Fast, Dark, Heavy, Adrenaline}

Upbeat/Rhythm {Dance, Lighter Action, Fun but not Funny}

Humorous/Satirical {Funny, Silly, Teasing, Making Light Of}

Uncertain or Clueless: please choose one for me.

I understand that these are "general" guidlines for how AMV creators should categorize their own videos. I was in particular confused as to whether I should go into Serous/Dramatic or Action, just based on the wording here. I whole heartedly feel that my video is more Serious/Dramatic than it is Action, in any sense of those words. So, because I felt that my video had the qualities, "Grand Scale, Abstractions, Personal Conflict, Dark, Adrenaline," I submitted under Uncertain or Clueless. I honestly don't know what "Grand Scale" means, but I'd like to think my video has it.

I'm not saying that I should have won, or anything. That's not why I'm posting right now. I'm not complaining. I just went with everyone's best judgement. I'm perfectly excited that I even made it into the Otakon contest. Take me through the process.

My question is: How did my video get placed into Action?

And while I'm at it, is there some sort of mutual exclusiveness for these categories? It doesn't make sense that there would be, because it's all subjective, but are there boundaries that should not be crossed? There's all sorts of "romance" and "sentiments" in the world, which are not limited to but include "serious," "drama," "action," "upbeat," and, "humor."

This seems like it should be common sense, but maybe it isn't. No, it isn't common sense. It is subjective. So, as long as it's got some sort of overwhelming romance or sentiments, it should go there, instead of other genres. Wait, didn't I just say that this was subjective?

I've had issues myself when submitting things to cons in the pasts. Some times you just don't know what to submit to.

The examples listed for each category really aren't supposed to define EVERYTHING that the category is but merely give examples.
In fact for Upbeat I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of the "fun but not funny" since they can indeed be funny (upbeat was originally a spin off of Action, however it has evolved to cover the entire range between Action and Comedy... so you can have your very actiony upbeat or your very funny upbeat).

Grand Scale means things like "the end of the world" or large world/universe altering events (Think of it as an AMV in God mode, where the scale is so out there it's ridiculous). There was an Eva video in overflows this year which pretty much oozed of the whole "Grand Scale" idea. Wish I could remember the name right now.

Your video got put into Action because the majority of the suggestions for your video said "Action". When you submit as uncertain, the prescreeners get to say "hey I think this should go into..." whatever they think.
That reminds me, Illia Sadri was saying that "not everyone or even a majority will state something". Actually when it comes to categorizing uncertain videos almost everyone says something (there are always a couple who don't say anything for some reason), but like 90-98% of the prescreeners do. That's how we know the majority system works ^_^.

Mutual exclusiveness? Not really. From reading the posts people have made and comments I have received about how a certain video should or shouldn't be where it is (I've had people say a video was GREAT in the category it was in, and others ask WTF we were smoking letting it be in the category that it was) I've learned that everyones idea of "what makes this a X or a Y video" is totally subjective. Generally there ARE guide lines that most people can agree upon, but lately not so much.
(note: I've been up for like 30 hours at this point so there is a chance that nothing I am saying makes any sense, if not then sorry).

But anyway you see why it's complicated. Which is why we first go by what the creator says, then take into account what the prescreeners say.
And honestly, after viewing 80-180 entries (depending on the year ^_^) about 30 times each, my brain tends to turn to mush and I have no idea WHAT I think about an entry anymore (my opinion on an entry will change several times over the course of putting the contest together) which is why the creator and prescreener opinions mean so much.

oh well, I need sleep before I die and stuff.

[ReligionX]

Grand Scale means things like "the end of the world" or large world/universe altering events (Think of it as an AMV in God mode, where the scale is so out there it's ridiculous). There was an Eva video in overflows this year which pretty much oozed of the whole "Grand Scale" idea. Wish I could remember the name right now.

Grand Scale ~ / = End of the World? I get the general idea. That ominous, foreboding, catasthropic sense of something larger is going on than anyone is aware of. No, I guess I didn't really have that.

Your video got put into Action because the majority of the suggestions for your video said "Action". When you submit as uncertain, the prescreeners get to say "hey I think this should go into..." whatever they think.
That reminds me, Illia Sadri was saying that "not everyone or even a majority will state something". Actually when it comes to categorizing uncertain videos almost everyone says something (there are always a couple who don't say anything for some reason), but like 90-98% of the prescreeners do. That's how we know the majority system works ^_^.

I think that I am on a mission now to make a completely indecisive AMV that could fit into any category for Otakon 2007. Oh, this will be fun. I get the feeling that it'll default to Upbeat. A dramatic / upbeat video, you ask? Watch me! I'll just have to make it past the screening...

[dwchang]

I am wondering why the recommendations made at those very prescreenings are ignored?

They aren't ignored. They just are not in the majority.
Everyone was told that if they really thought something should be moved then they should say so. Out of all the reviewers only a handful of people made recommendations for any pre-categorized entries to be moved.
In order to get something moved to a different category than what the submitter sent it in as, the majority of prescreeners would have to make the recommendation, otherwise the creators decision stands (or if the creators choice was so "out there" that it makes no sense at all, like if "Sunshine, Lollipops, and Grrrr" was submitted to Romance... it would get moved by default).

OK just asking. I suppose majority is harder since yeah as Lynn mentions it's hard when people don't write anything at all, but as she said, I guess just take more into consideration since *I* (yeah my opinion) felt many videos *were* obviously miscategorized and I know talking to others I am not the only one.

Why have that authority and not use it when a fairly large number of people disagree with the categorization of a video and in fact, in some extreme cases, a video that is misclassified, wins the category while a video that is debateably more fitting to the category loses.

Here is basically how things break down:
Creator of video > Prescreeners > Contest Staff
How the creator decides to submit the entry takes top priority. After that comes what the prescreeners think something should be. Then lastly is what we (staff) think.
As far as the contest goes, staff have godly ability (we can do anything... really), but most of the time we don't use those powers.... and simply go by what the creators and prescreeners say. There are times we do say "hey wait a second, this is wrong" but that's rare (like if the case I presented above ever happened).

I guess I just was hoping you guys would do the "hey, wait a second this is wrong" more often since I dunno, this keeps happening (not only at Otakon) and to some extreme cases, decides and breaks a category winner imo.

Especially if it is a comedic video in anything other than comedy.

I'm going to take a guess that you are talking about "Peter Cabbit Book report" here (as it's been one of the top controversies this year).
1) It was sent in as Upbeat, 2) Only a hand full of people (between 5-10 max, out of 50+ reviewers) said it should be moved, 3) there were only 4 entries submitted to upbeat this year.
There was no way it was getting moved from upbeat no matter how funny it may have been, not unless a bunch of other upbeat videos magically appeared (luckily we got 2 more after the uncertain videos were categorized and allowed the category to be filled, but just barely).
If there were more Upbeat videos it would have been moved to Comedy most likely.

Actually although that was a video I had in mind, it's by no means the only one and gotta keep in mind the last two or three years . In any case, with that particular instance, and I believe other prescreeners talked to antonion in PMs, I thought upbeat shouldn't have even existed with so few submissions and the "strong" one being a comedy imo. I realize not having a category is pretty bad, but *I* felt that having a weak category with a comedy winning it kinda cheapens the award, but what's done is done and you guys felt otherwise.

I won't go into specifics, but I saw a little of it last year in multiple contests...I see a pattern and I don't like it, but you can feel free to disagree.

See, so it's not just an issue with Otakon's contest, it's other contests as well.
I don't know WHY it is how it is for other cons, but for Otakon everything is where it is for a reason. Ask about any entry and I can tell you exactly why it is where it is (no really, ask).

Yeah unfortunately it is not just Otakon. I see A LOT of cons and creators submitting to, what I believe, incorrect categories just to have an easier win or time getting in. I guess it's how "play the game," but on the coordinators side I guess I was hoping for more involvement to prevent what I feel is a cheap tactic and cheapening awards even more than the piece of plastic they are .

In the end what it comes down to is how the creators are submitting as that is the basline for EVERYTHING.

Perhaps this will be construed wrong, but sometimes the creator can be wrong . Especially IF they are doing it on purpose for awards.

(and btw I am not AT ALL claiming videos that won this year at Otakon did that to win. In fact, the video mentioned in this post I felt was did not do that. I have a hard time believing a Parent (they have a kid apparently) would go to such lengths for an award )

Although I first off don't particulary like how Brakus is saying who should've won IN HIS OPINION since it is disrespectful to those who DID win and somewhat degrades their efforts,

Understandable, since I remember someone (either here or on his LiveJournal) dissing my "I Am Fullmetal" AMV for winning Best Drama at Bakuretsu Con last year in favor of a different one that he thought he should have won. I didn't feel too good about that, honestly.

I meant no disrespect to Castor Troy at all; he made a fine video and I knew going in that it would most likely win -- and it did. I just placed a bet against the odds-on favorite. I guess my stating who should have won just shows how lousy I am at handicapping the winners of an AMV contest.

Yeah kinda the same thing about how you felt after reading that. It's fine to disagree, but I dunno it just came across as kinda mean to castor. And since he's my friend and probably won't kill me, I didn't vote for him either so there .

[hackerzc]

Grand Scale ~ / = End of the World? I get the general idea. That ominous, foreboding, catasthropic sense of something larger is going on than anyone is aware of. No, I guess I didn't really have that.

Not ominous or foreboding really (though it can be those things) it's more of the largeness of it all (going over the top). Um, things like the battle at the end of lord of the rings 3, Goku going to super sayajin 9,000, Naruto using his Red chakra in some epic battle (anything where anyone uses these insanely god like powers really), wars that cover the globe or galaxy.
Just think big. Instead of a shark, think shark with a friken laser on it's head, riding a roller coaster, shooting bees from it's mouth and the bees have guns that ALSO shoot bees carrying chainsaws.

*I* (yeah my opinion) felt many videos *were* obviously miscategorized

And I have to agree with you to an extent. There were videos that didn't quite fit right. Upbeat is the big one where I think this was an issue, but there wasn't much that could be done short of getting rid of the category this year (which wasn't going to happen) or cutting the category short (which we thought would be taken far worse than a couple videos that didn't quite fit right).

I guess I just was hoping you guys would do the "hey, wait a second this is wrong" more often since I dunno, this keeps happening (not only at Otakon) and to some extreme cases, decides and breaks a category winner imo.

Even when that happens someone complains about this or that not being in the right place. If that happened you would be taking the subjective opinions of 50 people and replacing it with the subjective opinions of 3 people. Is that really any better? I honestly have no problem saying "this should be here", but really it's a matter of what will make you guys happier.
You aren't going to like how this sounds but a LOT of decisions with the contest are made based on "what will result in the least amount of complaining/bitching" from you guys. We know it's going to happen no matter what we do (even if things are PERFECT, someone will find something to gripe about), so it's a matter of trying to keep that to a minimum.
And really if you weigh the number of people who have complaints against the thousands who saw the contest.... it's really a very small percentage who have issues with anything. So keeping things in perspective everything went well.
Even so, speaking for myself, I TRY and please everyone (no matter how futile it is). So really if everyone would prefer staff opinions having a larger influence on what goes where for next year, that can easily be done.

[dwchang]

I agree that people will bitch no matter what, but just b/c a small % (compared to thousands) are saying anything doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Most people just are lazy and don't say anything .

Also comparing it to the thousands who saw the contest is kind of a bad comparison since that's like saying all X thousand care enough or are on the site to post. It's probably a better comparison to use the actual editors in the contest as a decent baseline of the folks who cares.

Regardless, hopefully opinions held here are kept into consideration for the next year.