I Just Don't Get It

[Flint the Dwarf]

Cer, I know you've heard Porcupine Tree (and probably like their bass; ie Strip the Soul), but check out Pain of Salvation and Riverside. Both bands have some amazing bass. Pain of Salvation's "Night Mist" has some of the best bass I've heard in my life.

I just bought a bass myself, and am starting to play.

As for the question at hand, it really is kinda silly. At the core, metal is heavy and generally more complex than your average music. But the appeal of more popular music is the chorus, lyrics, and the hook. Repetition. Yeah, some metal can be pretty damn repetitive and definitely have an emphasis on choruses (power metal). The way I see it is that popular music is listened to mostly by casual listeners. People who listen to music as white noise. They want catchy melodies, simple lyrics with daily life appeal, and a chorus they can memorize by the end of the song. Metal isn't like that.

When these listeners get more into music, they dig deeper into the various components that make up popular music. They might get into techno for repetition and melody, classical for emotion and melody, punk for simplicity and energy, emo for being flaming homos, et cetera. And that's not to mention vocal appeal. Many metal singers have voices that you kinda have to get into, while those singers of many other genres have smooth, easily accessible vocals.

Despite all that, it's entirely about personal appeal. What you deem passionate and intense might be seen as generic and trite by someone else.

[And as for metal not doing funny, you obviously have not heard Dream Evil]

[Otohiko]

I like it when people ask "why do you listen to your music", even if the formulation intself is clunky.

Expand your tastes, man. There is a lot of energy in other types of music that's not found in metal - and vice versa, as you've stated. One needn't have a checklist of 'items to like in music' - that is, if you go on open-mindedly, the checklist itself will expand.

I an relate since, well, when I joined the .org about 3 years ago I had a much more narrow view of what was good music (back then it was limited to mostly prog rock, classic rock, avant-garde rock). Since then I've expanded into anything from texturist alternative pop to industrial to rock-n-roll to Russian punk, with a bit of metal on the side. There are very individualized reasons why I might like a band; I can't get the musicianship from Opeth in PilOt, but the latter offers a lot of the sorts of songwriting that have no place in metal; I can get intensity of a kind from a metal vocalist of your choice, and yet not one of them will offer the same sort of intensity as a certain Russian singer whose lyrics I'm known to whore lately, because again, his work doesn't fit into the metal frame and shouldn't be measured by it.

Anyway, everything needs to go on individual basis. When it comes down to it, loyalties aside - I don't like genres, I like specific bands; no, I don't even like specific bands, I like specific songs and even specific musical moments. And these musical moments may or may not have intricate solos going for them, and it's not what matters.

[HeavyMetal]

The concept of the casual listeners white noise makes since.

But as for simple lyrics, chorus and lyrics focus, and hooks you have KISS and Def Leppard.

Def Leppard is very lyric driven with tons of hooks. Or maybe even No More Mr. Nice Guy by Alice Cooper.

Even non-KISS fans no the lyrics to a KISS song, they're so simple to know.

I guess many Metal singers have leather lungs, but Bruce of Iron Maiden or Dave from Van Halen aren't unpleasant. For that matter Def Leppard is also pleasant. Or the band HIM for something from today.

Even if they found one band trite its not like there aren't about a billion other metal bands of all kinds; granted I think half of them have the same members.


Otohiko did I not say I've listened to a ton of other music?
But that I've never found anything in another genre not done by metal.

Its not a matter of being open minded or not. I would say I gave most other music a greater chance than most give metal.

I actually used to listen to a whole lot of other music. Then I just kept finding out about metal bands that did the same things, but metal.

Point taken on looking to individual bands (particularly since metal is mostly unique from band to band), but if you like certain things for the most part you will find them more in one genre than another. So at some point you can look at your CDs and say I have more of this type of music or my favorite band is this type.


I should probably point out that I do not break music up into numerous or strictly defined genre. To me there is but light and dark metal; call it speed, thrash, prog, etc it all goes back to the archetypes of Sabbath or Zepplin; beautiful or evil. The same thing goes for other genre as well.


I found my like of metal long before I knew the reasons for it, but reasons there be.

I just want to understand the the thoughts of others.

Anytime someone says hey listen to this I can pretty well always say try this metal band if you like that.

It’s a question of what makes you like your music?(I ask partially because so many hate metal. Though most listen to the media too much. Sanders is the real chicken killer.)

I spelled out the most general of things that draw me to metal, but so far we have a short list of reasons for other music:
White Noise/Background Listeners

(I do that with Metal, but I can see that many could not.)

[Kai Stromler]

(quote reformatted to something more conventional to save space)

The concept of the casual listeners white noise makes since, but as for simple lyrics, chorus and lyrics focus, and hooks you have KISS and Def Leppard. Def Leppard is very lyric driven with tons of hooks. Or maybe even No More Mr. Nice Guy by Alice Cooper. Even non-KISS fans no the lyrics to a KISS song, they're so simple to know.

I guess many Metal singers have leather lungs, but Bruce of Iron Maiden or Dave from Van Halen aren't unpleasant. For that matter Def Leppard is also pleasant. Or the band HIM for something from today.

Even if they found one band trite its not like there aren't about a billion other metal bands of all kinds; granted I think half of them have the same members.

Otohiko did I not say I've listened to a ton of other music?
But that I've never found anything in another genre not done by metal. Its not a matter of being open minded or not. I would say I gave most other music a greater chance than most give metal. I actually used to listen to a whole lot of other music. Then I just kept finding out about metal bands that did the same things, but metal.

Point taken on looking to individual bands (particularly since metal is mostly unique from band to band), but if you like certain things for the most part you will find them more in one genre than another. So at some point you can look at your CDs and say I have more of this type of music or my favorite band is this type. I should probably point out that I do not break music up into numerous or strictly defined genre. To me there is but light and dark metal; call it speed, thrash, prog, etc it all goes back to the archetypes of Sabbath or Zepplin; beautiful or evil. The same thing goes for other genre as well.

I found my like of metal long before I knew the reasons for it, but reasons there be. I just want to understand the the thoughts of others. Anytime someone says hey listen to this I can pretty well always say try this metal band if you like that. It’s a question of what makes you like your music?(I ask partially because so many hate metal. Though most listen to the media too much. Sanders is the real chicken killer.)

I spelled out the most general of things that draw me to metal, but so far we have a short list of reasons for other music:
White Noise/Background Listeners
(I do that with Metal, but I can see that many could not.)

WARNING: this response is probably going to turn out tl;dr, so if this is the case just skip down to the conclusion header.

This is what I suspected from the start, but couldn't really articulate over the like day and a half that I've been looking at this topic and trying to get in a succinct and correct response. The real question being asked here is not why people listen to other kinds of music, but why people listen to these other kinds of music over metal, when they're aware that metal exists and can provide a lot of what they're looking for. What follows as an answer is personal opinion, but may resonate with metalheads who have already answered, and with those who aren't into metal who want to know how this question even comes up.

If you took a total set of the general population and did a linear combine of their tastes with the total set of all existing metal songs, you would find that nearly everyone would like at least one metal song, but this would not be the same song, nor from the same band; they might like multiple songs, but most will come up with only a handful in comparison to metalheads. We'll refer to this set as the 'first 90%' of the population. If you play them the right song or songs, they'll like it, but they most likely will never buy a CD of go to a show. If they don't hear the right music, they'll be able to go happily through their lives without taking notice of metal at all. These people will never be 'into' heavy metal in the way that you and I are, and there is nothing that can be done to change this. Short of a total brain transplant, they will never become metalheads, and if metal were to change sufficiently to appeal to them, it would lose its own essential character. These people listen to other music because it is the music that exists for them; heavy metal is either not on their radar or enjoys no special status over everything else.

That was the first 90%; now for the next 10%. These are the people who have 'what it takes', personally and mentally, to become metalheads. This 10% is sampled from all people, everywhere; it's one of my strongest convictions on this subject that metalheads are not created but awakened: that liking heavy metal is not a conscious decision but an automatic or subconscious response. If these people never hear any metal, they will go on without it, but may or may not miss its presence. Once they discover themselves as metalheads, they will buy CDs, go to shows, and otherwise participate in the scene, though the level of such may wax and wane based on other things going on in their life. These people listen to metal because it is in them to do so, and it's at this level where "metal with outside element X' starts to be preferred over "outside music focusing on element X" simply because it's metal.

Among this 10%, though, we find the one-percenters, for whom metal subsumes everything else. This term is borrowed from biker vocabulary; the original contention is that only 1% of the population has the capacity to live the rock-n-roll, outlaw-biker lifestyle, but as long as 1% of the population lives this way, the spirit of rock'n'roll will never die. It is at this level that it's possible to ask the question posed by the OP in complete seriousness, because the one-percenters are so deep into metal and so aware of what it has to offer that, no matter what musical mood strikes them, they very seldom need to go outside of the loose and extremely broad boundaries of metal to get it. These are the people who spend every weekend at some show or another and nearly all of their disposable income on CDs and other merch. They make the scene go, and in nearly every place on earth, they will find their way into metal, because whatever intangibles it delivers are essential to them. If Asian Rock Rising wasn't offline again, I'd link there as a great tribute to the one percent in putting down roots for metal in countries that we in the west might not expect it to.

Conclusion:
1) People listen to music besides metal because very few people have the ability to make metal the mainstay of their musical diet.
2) This is because metal requires something as yet not accurately described from its listeners in order for them to make the necessary commitment to be metal fans.
3) Even asking this question indicates a disconnective state where it may not be possible to understand the answer.

hth,
--K

[HeavyMetal]

Articulate response, but the question really is what does other music have to offer? (I don't care if they do not chose metal.)

(It is a 'what makes them tick question.')

I personnelly will listen to anything, but 99.9% of the time will find the most satisfaction in metal. I know why I like it, but I have yet to come across a person that could explain why they like the music they do.

What you suggest is a sociobiological view.

But I find it takes that and sociology to make the true connection.

I found solice in metal as a different and often excluded person, but Metal was a path I walked to find yet more music. In the beginning I could have chosen from different options to the same end. So environmentally I was pushed to it, biologically I liked the sound, but there were other options in things like funk, punk, grunge, etc. I'm still a Kravitz and Nirvana fan.

What I am sayings is not why this and not that, but just Why. I can justify to myself the factors that make me like metal, but when I ask others why they like their music I get a shrug. If they do give an answer its in terms of things found in numerous other musics that they may completely hate.

For example if a Hip-Hop fan hates techno, but likes Hip-Hop because of the beat alone that would be a bit of hypocrisy in its simplest form. Techno is beat driven, but of course very different.

I believe that less is often more, but there must be a reason to chose a type of music that does not take the elements of music you like as far as metal.

So what I had hoped for is that someone could say I like country (or whatever) because...without making such a generic statement that it could apply to any music. Essentially I'm looking for a path of reason that leads somewhere new.

[downwithpants]

personally:
there isn't any music genre that I can state reasons for why I like it without:
-overgeneralizing the genre
-overgeneralizing my feelings toward the genre
or
-giving overgeneralized reasons that aren't specific to that genre

i don't like music just because it's a certain genre. i like certain musical pieces of several different genres for various reasons.

there are situations where i prefer some genres to others (this goes back to the genre-specific function of music), and where i prefer some songs within some genres to others.

[Otohiko]

Articulate response, but the question really is what does other music have to offer?

I think your first problem is that you already have a pre-conceived notion of what music should offer and your view of quality. There is no such thing as singular quality in music which is measurable and applies equally to everything; there is on the other hand many, often incompatible qualities.

It's useless trying to compare metal to the generic 'non-metal' because there are fundamentally different qualities at play here.

Whether you've grown into metal or metal has grown into your notion of quality in music, with your approach you'll never get to anything other than metal - because the qualities you're looking for are essentially on the metal plane. In fact some types of music are even based on completely different attitudes and value systems. You're not going to get much out of other genres of music while approaching them with a mindset that's fixed on an incompatible perception of what constitutes quality.

Let's look at your list:

I like Metal. Why:

Passionate Lyrics
Powerful Bass
Wild Antics
Wide Range of Songs
Wide Range of Fans
Enormous Shows
Legendary Characters
Interesting People
Inventive Styles
Adrenalin Pounding Music

You realize this list could apply in a slightly different plane to anything from jazz to punk to prog rock? I fail to see what defines 'passionate' lyrics on a genre basis. Same goes for the others. They're all not just debatable, they're applicable across a very wide cross-section of generic rock (and even non-rock) music.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm not saying I like metal, because its metal. (ewww at all the terrible bands that claimed metal at some point. Even M. Bolton tried for metal at one point. ahhhh.)


Yes I realize about my list, but together it applies mostly to metal. I happen to like other genre when they have some of those features.

I'm not looking to compare anything. I used metal as my example because metal is what I like. It is just that an EXAMPLE.

I kept my list simple because everytime I elaborate to much somebody gets caught in the words and misses the point. Sound familiar.

No music does not breakdown to a set number attributes, but such attributes are that can be measured. I can't measure a musical spiritual high, but I can measure the elements of its source.

I hate such quantitative measuring sticks, but qualitive gets overly simple answers that are worse than generic if any explanation at all.

Your conception of pre-conceived of notions is even more off. I looked at metal to come up with that list so no shit it looks like a metal set of parameters.

I am asking for someone to explain the values in other music by a simple standard or an internal standard I care not which. I just hope somebody can actually give an answer rather than your question sucks cuz it too hard, you stupid response.

[Iamshadowkiller]

The reason your question sucks is not because it's "too hard".

I think that if you believe, really believe that there is a definite answer to your question, then perhaps it's time to think hard on just what exactly it is you like and why you like it, before you start questioning everyone else.

And before you start responding to me with your defensive mumbo jumbo, just save it, it's too long and really makes no sense.

/end

[nailz]

Music that is not Metal offers the same thing banana's do..

A healthy dose of potassium.