Definitions of 'underground' and 'indie'
- badmartialarts
- Bad Martial Artist
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Definitions of 'underground' and 'indie'
I'm a bit behind the times. Here's what I always thought these two words meant:
Underground - a artist who is currently unsigned and has achived some success likely only in a limited area. Thanks to the Internet though this is changing and the underground is coming up for air.
Indie - a artist who has signed themselves, in the sense that they do all their own production, or who is a member of a known indie house, usually a small group of bands who pool costs for production.
But now I have been led to understand that these are now genres of music? What the heck? How can people who aren't signed constitute a genre unless ALL unsigned people are cloning each other (which, again, with the Internet is a possibility)....
I'm confused...
Underground - a artist who is currently unsigned and has achived some success likely only in a limited area. Thanks to the Internet though this is changing and the underground is coming up for air.
Indie - a artist who has signed themselves, in the sense that they do all their own production, or who is a member of a known indie house, usually a small group of bands who pool costs for production.
But now I have been led to understand that these are now genres of music? What the heck? How can people who aren't signed constitute a genre unless ALL unsigned people are cloning each other (which, again, with the Internet is a possibility)....
I'm confused...
Life's short.
eBayhard.
eBayhard.
- Jace Tsunami
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- badmartialarts
- Bad Martial Artist
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:31 am
- Location: In ur Kitchen Stadium, eatin ur peppurz
Hrm.
So there are underground artists with platinum selling albums? Isn't that kind of the opposite of what you'd expect the word to mean? Same with indie....
As MC Frontalot says, "...should I ever garner triple-digit fans you can tell me then there's someone I ain't indier than..."
So there are underground artists with platinum selling albums? Isn't that kind of the opposite of what you'd expect the word to mean? Same with indie....
As MC Frontalot says, "...should I ever garner triple-digit fans you can tell me then there's someone I ain't indier than..."
Life's short.
eBayhard.
eBayhard.
- Jace Tsunami
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- Kai Stromler
- Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:35 am
- Location: back in the USSA
more on underground/independent music:
There are hundreds and thousands of labels out there that do not belong to the RIAA. Bands that record on them are considered "independent" in the sense of "being outside the control of the Big Five megalabels", though as anyone who has ever recorded for Century Media, the biggest of the "independent" metal labels, will tell you, this does not mean "free of bullshit corporate interference". (There are probably similar situations among punk/hardcore independents that Jace can tell you about)
In the 1980s, most of the artists on independent labels played in the style of music now known as "alternative" or "indie" rock. This is still a major portion of the independent-label market, but taste trends in the mainstream have also seen a greater recent growth of metal and hip-hop independent labels. Metal until recently was not seen as commercially viable by the major labels, forcing artists to seek other distribution avenues; hip-hop independents emerge and grow in a reaction to the commercializing emphases that the major labels put on their sound and culture, and offer more room for creative freedom. Punk and hardcore have from their inception been defined by independent labels as a cornerstone of the DIY philosophy and general opposition to corporate control.
Music fans use "indie" to refer to a certain style of rock. Uninformed music journalists use "indie" to describe anyone who isn't signed to a RIAA label, regardless of how many sceneheads they drive berserk.
"Underground" is more slippery to define. It's like the official Supreme Court definition of pornography -- we know it when we see it. If a band has a song in regular radio rotation, they are probably not underground. If a band has a video in regular rotation on the dominant music video channel in your area, they are probably not underground. If you can buy a band's CD at Wal-Mart, they are probably not underground. As Jace said, there is also a certain threshold where a band is not "underground" but simply "local"; if they don't tour, or don't tour outside a certain area, they're more "local" than "underground", which refers to moderately broad geographical fame within their subculture.
Underground and independent sales vary by genre. I don't know how other genres are doing (Jace can probably help with his area of expertise), but a very successful underground metal album may move 50,000 copies worldwide. Until this year, Iced Earth was Century Media's most successful artist, with average worldwide sales of about 200-300,000 per release -- Lacuna Coil obviously broke this record with their emergence from the underground.
Lacuna Coil are independent, but not underground; they're still on CM, but they have fairly wide exposure outside the traditional scene. Damageplan were underground, but not independent; they were on Elektra, but the label gave them shitty tour support and did virtually nothing to promote their CD.
Hope this helps, and I didn't get too much wrong; I used to work in college radio, but I've been out for a couple years and things may have changed on me.
--K
There are hundreds and thousands of labels out there that do not belong to the RIAA. Bands that record on them are considered "independent" in the sense of "being outside the control of the Big Five megalabels", though as anyone who has ever recorded for Century Media, the biggest of the "independent" metal labels, will tell you, this does not mean "free of bullshit corporate interference". (There are probably similar situations among punk/hardcore independents that Jace can tell you about)
In the 1980s, most of the artists on independent labels played in the style of music now known as "alternative" or "indie" rock. This is still a major portion of the independent-label market, but taste trends in the mainstream have also seen a greater recent growth of metal and hip-hop independent labels. Metal until recently was not seen as commercially viable by the major labels, forcing artists to seek other distribution avenues; hip-hop independents emerge and grow in a reaction to the commercializing emphases that the major labels put on their sound and culture, and offer more room for creative freedom. Punk and hardcore have from their inception been defined by independent labels as a cornerstone of the DIY philosophy and general opposition to corporate control.
Music fans use "indie" to refer to a certain style of rock. Uninformed music journalists use "indie" to describe anyone who isn't signed to a RIAA label, regardless of how many sceneheads they drive berserk.
"Underground" is more slippery to define. It's like the official Supreme Court definition of pornography -- we know it when we see it. If a band has a song in regular radio rotation, they are probably not underground. If a band has a video in regular rotation on the dominant music video channel in your area, they are probably not underground. If you can buy a band's CD at Wal-Mart, they are probably not underground. As Jace said, there is also a certain threshold where a band is not "underground" but simply "local"; if they don't tour, or don't tour outside a certain area, they're more "local" than "underground", which refers to moderately broad geographical fame within their subculture.
Underground and independent sales vary by genre. I don't know how other genres are doing (Jace can probably help with his area of expertise), but a very successful underground metal album may move 50,000 copies worldwide. Until this year, Iced Earth was Century Media's most successful artist, with average worldwide sales of about 200-300,000 per release -- Lacuna Coil obviously broke this record with their emergence from the underground.
Lacuna Coil are independent, but not underground; they're still on CM, but they have fairly wide exposure outside the traditional scene. Damageplan were underground, but not independent; they were on Elektra, but the label gave them shitty tour support and did virtually nothing to promote their CD.
Hope this helps, and I didn't get too much wrong; I used to work in college radio, but I've been out for a couple years and things may have changed on me.
--K
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CHOPWORK - abominations of maceration
skywide, armspread : forward, upward
Coelem - Tenebral Presence single now freely available
- Jace Tsunami
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Kai's pretty much got it.
The definition of "underground" got really confusing when the internet came along. Now it's really hard to call anything "underground" when you can download it and read all about it in just a few mouse clicks. Of course, there's always going to be new and wierd stuff coming out, stuff that's underground in spirit, but I really wonder whether there's actually an underground scene anymore. The '80s had so much going on underground: hardcore, punk, hip-hop, indie rock, experimental stuff... now it's all being disgested by the media so much faster that it's hard for a scene to develop. But that's me running off on a tangent again...
The definition of "underground" got really confusing when the internet came along. Now it's really hard to call anything "underground" when you can download it and read all about it in just a few mouse clicks. Of course, there's always going to be new and wierd stuff coming out, stuff that's underground in spirit, but I really wonder whether there's actually an underground scene anymore. The '80s had so much going on underground: hardcore, punk, hip-hop, indie rock, experimental stuff... now it's all being disgested by the media so much faster that it's hard for a scene to develop. But that's me running off on a tangent again...
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Inie Love
I love Indie Rock, it's so different, outside of the faggoty trends that today's crap-rock set.