Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

[Anicsi]

I am noticing the same problems as Anicsi. FCE is changing my frame rate, introducing interlacing etc. And Mpegstreamclip and Avidemux are both ignoring the 16:9 flagging. I have to manually enter the frame size to 848*480. I also noticed a problem when trying to export from FCE uncompressed. The resulting file seemed...corrupted. Both times.

Well, I used to have the sequences set to Anamorphotic widescreen with the result of horrible interlacing (for pictures check the previous page). However, I am now always using the Apple Intermediate 720 and I have to say the quality is stunning! No interlacing at all. Sure, you have to upscale the footage at first, but when I export it with the normal 848*480 size, it looks fine!
I've never tried to export from FCE uncompressed, though.

[Anicsi]

Okay, now it is official: I am SOOO freaking out!!! -.- When I now move my mov. x264 file with MPEGStreamclip IT HAS NO AUDIO.
What should I do, this is just.... ridiculous *cries* Anyone an idea what could be the reason for that? Maybe I should download it again. Oh man, honestly....

[gotenks794]

I am noticing the same problems as Anicsi. FCE is changing my frame rate, introducing interlacing etc. And Mpegstreamclip and Avidemux are both ignoring the 16:9 flagging. I have to manually enter the frame size to 848*480. I also noticed a problem when trying to export from FCE uncompressed. The resulting file seemed...corrupted. Both times.

Well, I used to have the sequences set to Anamorphotic widescreen with the result of horrible interlacing (for pictures check the previous page). However, I am now always using the Apple Intermediate 720 and I have to say the quality is stunning! No interlacing at all. Sure, you have to upscale the footage at first, but when I export it with the normal 848*480 size, it looks fine!
I've never tried to export from FCE uncompressed, though.

Do you mean changing the sequence settings to Apple Intermediate 720? Because that's what I did. And when do you scale back down to 848*480? When exporting from Final Cut? Or when transferring to MP4 in Streamclip/Avidemux or whichever?

Oh and sorry I can't answer your question. Perhaps Kionon...or someone..

[Kionon]

gotenks, can I get a comparison clipping? A second or two would be fine.

Ancisi, if it's working for you, then that's all that matters. Normally I would recommend against it, and I still don't know why it's necessary, but 848x480 is fine for distribution copies.

[Anicsi]

Do you mean changing the sequence settings to Apple Intermediate 720? Because that's what I did. And when do you scale back down to 848*480? When exporting from Final Cut? Or when transferring to MP4 in Streamclip/Avidemux or whichever?

Oh and sorry I can't answer your question. Perhaps Kionon...or someone..

Well, yes that's what I did. On the second (or the first page) is a screenshot of a 'EF: the latter tale' clip. Two holding hands. You will notice that FCE wasn't able to show the black lines properly in the previous project settings. And I tried everything to avoid interlacing but it wouldn't work. So yes, for me this is absolutely the best setting.
To your question: As I have no audio once I transfer it to mp4 in streamclip, I don't do it anymore xD (new installation didn't help a thing....)
So yes, when exporting from Final Cut ^^

@Kionon: Yeah, i know, but somehow all my programs act weird .-.

[gotenks794]

gotenks, can I get a comparison clipping? A second or two would be fine.

OK, here.

Let's see, we've got (not in order):

•Huffy Clip.avi - The original huffYUV clip.

•x264 export.mov - The same clip, exported from final cut. It doesn't have interlacing, to my surprise. Which leads to the next item...

•x264 With effect.mov - So it seems I was introducing interlace into my video when I added effects. So how should I get around this?

•x264 MP4(avidemux).mp4 - My original clip, exported from FCE and saved as mp4 using Avidemux. Notice the flagging is extremely ignored.

•x264 MP4(streamclip).mp4 - Essentially the same as above, except using MPEGStreamclip.

•Compression=none.mov - The file created when exporting the clip and choosing "none" under settings.

•Uncompressed 10bit.mov - The file created when exporting the clip and choosing "Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 under settings. Slightly weird...

•Untitled Project 3.fcp - I totally didn't include this by accident ... i suppose you can take a look at my settings with it, If you wanted. Slightly weird in a slightly different way...

My sequence settings were set to "DV NTSC 48khz" for all of them. Perhaps I should try changing this to Apple Intermediate 720 or something?
And if there was something else you wanted to see, I'll gladly upload it...

[pemberly]

Final Cut Express is limited, in that it wants to edit in DV or Apple Intermediate codec. If you import another kind of file (a HuffYUV avi, for example) it's going to give you the red render bar and you're going to have to render it back down to . . . DV or AIC. That's all it wants to deal with. If you want more than that, you have to upgrade to FCP. In FCE, everything ends up as DV in the end (or Apple Intermediate Codec, if you set your project up that way). So the easiest way to deal with FCE is to convert your clips (wherever they came from, whatever codec they were originally) to some codec that FCE supports natively. Doing anything else just clogs up your hard drive with unnecessary render files.

A while back there was an AMV tutorial for Final Cut (ishtori.net, a wonderful resource for Final Cut and Mac users—I miss it!), and they showed how to set up Final Cut so your clips didn't get the red render bar. That's the tutorial I followed and it's worked well.

With Final Cut Express 4 or FCP 6 or 7, all you need to do is place a clip in the DV codec in your timeline and FCE offers to set up your whole project that way. Easy.

When I convert my clips to DV MOV for FCE (or FCP) I tell MPEG Streamclip to set the aspect ratio by clicking on the "Options" button and choosing the aspect ratio from there. So far, FCE has never failed to recognize this and the imported clips look fine and don't need the aspect ratio adjusted.

I don't think FCE supports any other frame rate than 29.97 and 25. I would love for it to do 24 or 23.976 when I have clips with that frame rate, but I think you have to go to FCP for that.

I usually export my finished video as uncompressed, Animation, something like that. I sometimes have to deinterlace as I export (it just depends).

[gotenks794]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but rendering just creates a preview and doesn't actually convert the video. So editing with Huffy will give you better final quality in the end, yes?

[pemberly]

I know that the rendering aids in preview, but I always thought there was some sort of point in setting up your project to match your clips. Otherwise, why not set up every project as offline Photo JPEG? Why have the variety of setting up options in both Final Cut and Express?

[pemberly]

I did a little homework on this, and it looks like we're both right—and wrong.

Final Cut does use the render files in the final output (they're not just for preview only). This is how come when you choose "Export >> Quicktime Movie" the exporting time is so incredibly fast. Final Cut is using the rendered files to make a output file, using the same codec as your sequence. If you've set up your sequence as DV, it'll export (very quickly) a DV file. If you edit in ProRes HQ, your exported movie will be ProRes HQ (and again, the exporting time will be sinfully fast). But if you export out as some other codec (like H.264 or something), then apparently Final Cut disregards the render files and re-renders everything.

I use live action (not anime) in my videos, and have never seen a drastic quality loss when editing in DV, though I have edited in ProRes. I'm still doing tests of my own, though, and sometimes find that I must amend some of my previous conclusions. I just upgraded to Final Cut Pro 7, and am going to play around with editing in HD with one of the new ProRes codecs. (I have mkv files as my source footage, which I'm then either converting to AIC or ProRes.) The quality in HD AIC (which Final Cut Express supports) looks quite good (at least for live action videos).