Masking Issue

[Mastamind]

Interesting find, I've only edited with 29.97 so I hadn't noticed. The only problem with changing the framerate is that messing around with it could cause even more problems. I shall certainly look into it though
However I really don't think mishaps with the framerate on the editor's part is the cause.. I've worked with R1 dvds of Baccano, Naruto, Clannad and Death Note, among others which all tell me both on the boxes and in DGIndex are 29.97, and I think I've encountered this error on all counts.

[mirkosp]

Dude, you gotta inverse telecine in avisynth those VOBs. The anime is 23.976 telecined to 29.97, you drop the extra frames and get the 23.976 source and edit like that. Otherwise, masking issue or not, the motion will be jerky.
EDIT: Also, this issue really isn't frame blending. Frame blending is a whole other thing, and unless you're using a very old or a PAL source, I can call you lucky to not ever have to deal with it (because in other cases you don't get blending unless you screw something up yourself).

[nikolakis]

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... 53&t=98146

^ Just read what i am saying at the first post in the 3rd part...

English is not my main language, so i am sorry for any inconvenient to become perfectly clear...

[Mastamind]

Dude, you gotta inverse telecine in avisynth those VOBs. The anime is 23.976 telecined to 29.97, you drop the extra frames and get the 23.976 source and edit like that. Otherwise, masking issue or not, the motion will be jerky.

I see, I wasn't aware of this. So I've been editing at wrong fps the whole time
But there'll still be people working at 29.97, right? Or is it a given that if you have 29.97 footage you'll have to IVTC it? I've always been a little unclear on the subject.

^ Just read what i am saying at the first post in the 3rd part...

Sorry, I've read this before but it doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe I misunderstood?

[Nya-chan Production]

Dude, you gotta inverse telecine in avisynth those VOBs. The anime is 23.976 telecined to 29.97, you drop the extra frames and get the 23.976 source and edit like that. Otherwise, masking issue or not, the motion will be jerky.

I see, I wasn't aware of this. So I've been editing at wrong fps the whole time
But there'll still be people working at 29.97, right? Or is it a given that if you have 29.97 footage you'll have to IVTC it? I've always been a little unclear on the subject.

Nope, not always - you check whether the footage has been telecined and if so, then inverse telecine it, some footage gets made in 29.97 and that is fine to use in 29.97.

[BurningLeaves]

Dude, you gotta inverse telecine in avisynth those VOBs. The anime is 23.976 telecined to 29.97, you drop the extra frames and get the 23.976 source and edit like that. Otherwise, masking issue or not, the motion will be jerky.

Excellent this seems like it could be a really good possibility as to where this problem keeps coming from and why it's always on 29.97fps. I don't have my other source around anymore to check if that one had the same thing as well so it could be more definitive that this is where the masking problem is coming from but I think it's clear it has something to do with the frame rate.

I didn't notice any of the jerkyness in the video that you spoke of, but there's not really a ton of motion going on so that could be why. I'm glad I wasn't too lazy to drop the ss so you could find the problem for me. I'm assuming the TFF in gspot is what indicates telecine so that's what I'm going to have to look out for in the future? I had remembered reading about it in the guides but never came across it, or at least wasn't aware that I had. After rereading the guide since my video is around 90% complete I guess I will probably just be stuck with the extra frames but at least I know for the future to do it correctly.

Thank you (and everyone else) very much for taking a look and helping me out.

So just to clarify, is the way to tell if the footage has that issue, would that be the TFF gspot pointed out or was there some other way you were able to tell that I could be on the lookout for on any future projects?

[mirkosp]

The field order doesn't really count to say if a source is telecined or full field interlaced, it just says in which order the fields were encoded. Basically, what you have to do is look out for a pan or zoom and check the motion if every 5 frames, one is just the copy of the previous, then it's telecined; if instead all the frames are unique, then it's full field interlaced. Some sources mix full field interlaced parts and telecined parts, and these sources aren't exactly funny to work with... you'll have to chose one of the two and adapt the other. Luckily these sources aren't too common (well, it's kinda common to find opening and ending sequences that are 29.97 with the episodes being 23.976, but I mean more like episodes themselves being both).

[BurningLeaves]

The field order doesn't really count to say if a source is telecined or full field interlaced, it just says in which order the fields were encoded. Basically, what you have to do is look out for a pan or zoom and check the motion if every 5 frames, one is just the copy of the previous, then it's telecined;

Ah sorry I misunderstood, I thought there was something on the SS of gspot I posted that was able to let you know for sure that mine was. I went back to the .vobs and found a pan to look at but every frame seemed different. I made a .gif of 5 frames here because they are changing with each one, I left all the interlacing in and didn't touch anything other than number the frames in the gif

Spoiler :

Since you can't really see too well with that I made a lossy avi of about 20 frames in the same scene if anyone wouldn't mind taking a look.

From what you said about the 5 frames and from everything I looked at it doesn't seem like it is telecined but I don't really know enough about it to be sure. If you or anyone else has a chance would you mind taking a look? Since it doesn't seem like I'm the only one whose had this issue with vegas I think it would be helpful to find out why and your idea seems the most probable.

[Nya-chan Production]

To me it seems that the first 3 frames are made to represent 4 frames, but i'd wait for the modkip to solve it, I am not that experienced myself :>

[BurningLeaves]

To me it seems that the first 3 frames are made to represent 4 frames, but i'd wait for the modkip to solve it, I am not that experienced myself :>

Okies thank you very much for taking a look Nya.