Cartoon Network pisses me of...AGAIN ***SPOILERS***

[dwchang]

Well, there is already a thread about how Cartoon Network has Rurouni Kenshin and will be butchering it, but I would like to start this new thread with this link of the edits in Episode 7: Deathmatch in the Moonlight.

(rant) Now I totally understand why they edited out Jinei stabbing Kenshin, stabbing himself, the blood, etc. etc....but well...let's see THAT'S THE POINT OF THE FREAKING EPISODE!!! From the edits in that episode, they totally cut out Jinei committing suicide and his speech to Kenshin (about him being a hitokiri for the rest of his life, which is sort of important) and just sort of end the episode without any resolution.

Now anyone who has seen Kenshin knows that ttis was a fairly important scene in the series and not even stupid little kids will be fooled into thinking the episode just ends. I have *no* idea how they ended it since basically Kenshin is about to kill Jinei, Kaoru breaks out of the trance and then Jinei kills himself. So under the edits what...Kaoru breaks the trance and then they go to the happy ending? That doesn't give any sort of resolution.

My understanding is that the cuts are horrible and sudden, as in anyone with a half a brain can figure out something is wrong. For example, Jinei goes for his short sword ot stab Kenshin (CUT) Kenshin is on the ground holding his shoulder but without blood coming out. WTF! What are they gonna do for the Saitoh fight. Have Kenshin and Saitoh getting ready and then cut to Saitoh leaving the Dojo.

I know there was already a thread debating this issue, but from 7 episodes it's already obvious Cartoon Network hasn't even watched the entire show (or they'd realize it gets darker and should be on Adult Swim) or realize how retarded their cuts are. Regardless of what you thought earlier, we now know (from their first 7 episodes) how badly they can make it.

I HATE YOU CARTOON NETWORK!!!!! (/rant)

[Okami Productions]

I completely and utterly agree, from what I saw if you hadn't seen the unedited version you would bearly know that Jinnei was dead. I wish only two things: they put it on Adult Swim (no edits) or dont show it at all. If they dont do one of these the Kyoto arc will be like this, Kenshin looks at Wagon speeding towards him, cut scenes, YAY!!! we defeated Shishio who we haven't seen yet due to edits. -_-.

[Laven Atries]

Some of the cuts were so bad they were almost funny. Instead of Kenshin getting stabbed in the shoulder, they showed the clip with the one-handed stab from a few seconds before. I actually laughed out loud at that one. And I agree, without having seen the unedited version, you would have no way of knowing for sure what happened to Jin-e. But I will say that so far they've left in more than I expected. And they haven't screwed up the wording too much either that I've noticed. I believe that mentions of killing and dying are left in, using those actual words. I will be interested to see what they do for the very begining of the saitoh fight though. I'll bet it will make no sense at all. However, I don't think there was that much in the Kyoto Arc that they'll need to cut. Maybe the bit of Usui dying and a little blood, but for the most part, there isn't a lot of death and cutting of people. At least not more than slight flesh wounds like we've already seen. Most of the big blows are done with the sakaba, not a regular sword.
Now don't get me wrong, I hate what Toonami is doing to one of my favorite animes, but it's better than some of the stuff I've seen(Gundam Wing comes to mind). So enjoy what you can, and if it annoys you beyond tolerance, buy or rent the DVDs. I plan to one of these days when I have money(stupid college expenses).

-Laven Atries

[Okami Productions]

***************************SPOILERS**************************


I own the entire series on DVD, there are plenty of things that they will cut. To start of with, Shishio his reasoning for being how he is will be cut, if you remember he was shot in the head (cut) and then burned alive (cut). Then there is during Shojuros flash back when the men are cut in half. Im also sure they will cut the prime minister guy getting stabbed. Any scene of stabbing will be cut, any amount of blood that can be recognized. Alot will be cut from the Kyoto arc, even the stuff you dont think will be cut.

[dwchang]

I guess I'll post in response to everything.

you would bearly know that Jinnei was dead.

Exactly. This is QUITE important to the story. If you didn't know you'd think some psycho was still walking around and Kenshin didn't really do anything.

But I will say that so far they've left in more than I expected. And they haven't screwed up the wording too much either that I've noticed. I believe that mentions of killing and dying are left in, using those actual words.

Check that link and his other edit lists. You'd be surprised how much they took out and also the things they left in (like death and kill). For example, took out smoke coming out of Yamagata's cigar, but still has a cigar in his mouth (what was the point of that edit?). Also stuff like Kenshin attacking all those thugs with his reverse blade. They cut it out although everyone is UNCONCIOUS!!! That's the POINT of the REVERSE blade! ARGH!

However, I don't think there was that much in the Kyoto Arc that they'll need to cut. Maybe the bit of Usui dying and a little blood, but for the most part, there isn't a lot of death and cutting of people. At least not more than slight flesh wounds like we've already seen. Most of the big blows are done with the sakaba, not a regular sword.

I disagree. I think A LOT will be taken out that is VITAL to the show...just off the top of my head:

MAJOR KENSHIN SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

-Episode 30 - Entire Saitoh fight
-Episode 30 - Shishio's past and why he is the way he is (as mentioned)
-Episode 31 - Minister Okubo being assassinated (VERY important)
-Episode 35/36 - Senkaku. He kills that kids brother.
-Episode 38(?) - Okina vs. Aoshi...at the end Aoshi nearly kills him.
-Episode 40-ish - Flashback on Kenshin's past and the massacre that happened.
-Episode 44 (?) - Gatling gun...ooh a gun! (Scary)
-Episode 48 - Anji's past (VERY important and moving). Remember his children were burned and murdered?
-Episode 49 - Usui's death. Will be handled like Jinei in that you won't know that he's dead.
-Episode 50 - Aoshi fight and probably the entire flashback of the Oniwa group dying (probably taken out of Episode 11 too...so you don't even know Oniwa group is dead).
-Episode 52(ish) - Kamatari...the entire character will be redone since he's a crossdressing man. This is the major motivation of the character since Yumi is Shishio's love and Soujirou is Shishio's right hand man. Remember the conflict he/she has?
-Episode 54 - 56 - 90% of the Soujirou Kenshin Fight (best moment in the series I might add). Soujirou slashes Kenshin a number of times, Soujirou kills Senkaku, Soujirou's ENTIRE past (VERY important, just scratch episode 55 entirely),e tc.
-Episodes 58 - 60 - Entire Shishio fight. There is very few parts you can show of this since Shishio slashes Kenshin a number of times with "Homuradama" and also his explosiion attack. Also the end....Shishio dies (gasp...death in a cartoon?!) and also kills Yumi.

These are *only* off the top of my head too. So imagine the show without these (and more)...what do you have...to a degree what Okami says...Kenshiin leaves for Kyoto...he comes back and we are to assume he beat Shishio (but they won't show it...gasp!).

Yeah I own the DVDs (up until Kyoto since that's where the true Manga stops) and the reason I am ranting is that they took one of my favorite animes and butchered beyond recognition. Now I TOTALLY understand about anime becoming mainstream and love the fact they are showing more things to get more ppl in, but A) They shouldn't show a show if they are going to change it to the point where it's not really the original show (or anything remotely close) anymore (no real point then) and B) Why'd it have to be one of my favorite shows?

Like I said, I am fine with showing (gasp) dubs and all that, but if you're gonna show a show, you might as well be as loyal to the original as you can. What's the point in showing people (and tricking them IMO) a butchered version? So, they can enjoy half of the show?

[Chaos Angel]

Granted, I've never seen Kenshin beyond Ep 4, but all this talk of the edits it is undergoing make me glad I haven't been catching it on CN at all.

[Laven Atries]

Whole message contains spoilers so skip it if you don't want to get Kenshin spoiled!

However, I don't think there was that much in the Kyoto Arc that they'll need to cut. Maybe the bit of Usui dying and a little blood, but for the most part, there isn't a lot of death and cutting of people. At least not more than slight flesh wounds like we've already seen. Most of the big blows are done with the sakaba, not a regular sword.

I disagree. I think A LOT will be taken out that is VITAL to the show...just off the top of my head:

MAJOR KENSHIN SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

-Episode 30 - Entire Saitoh fight
-Episode 30 - Shishio's past and why he is the way he is (as mentioned)
-Episode 31 - Minister Okubo being assassinated (VERY important)
-Episode 35/36 - Senkaku. He kills that kids brother.
-Episode 38(?) - Okina vs. Aoshi...at the end Aoshi nearly kills him.
-Episode 40-ish - Flashback on Kenshin's past and the massacre that happened.
-Episode 44 (?) - Gatling gun...ooh a gun! (Scary)
-Episode 48 - Anji's past (VERY important and moving). Remember his children were burned and murdered?
-Episode 49 - Usui's death. Will be handled like Jinei in that you won't know that he's dead.
-Episode 50 - Aoshi fight and probably the entire flashback of the Oniwa group dying (probably taken out of Episode 11 too...so you don't even know Oniwa group is dead).
-Episode 52(ish) - Kamatari...the entire character will be redone since he's a crossdressing man. This is the major motivation of the character since Yumi is Shishio's love and Soujirou is Shishio's right hand man. Remember the conflict he/she has?
-Episode 54 - 56 - 90% of the Soujirou Kenshin Fight (best moment in the series I might add). Soujirou slashes Kenshin a number of times, Soujirou kills Senkaku, Soujirou's ENTIRE past (VERY important, just scratch episode 55 entirely),e tc.
-Episodes 58 - 60 - Entire Shishio fight. There is very few parts you can show of this since Shishio slashes Kenshin a number of times with "Homuradama" and also his explosiion attack. Also the end....Shishio dies (gasp...death in a cartoon?!) and also kills Yumi.

I am aware of those many things and while they will doubtlessly be editied, I don't think they will be removed altogether, at least not most of them. For Okubo's death, you'll probably see Soujiro appear on the carriage and you'll just have to assume he killed Okubo there. Also in the Soujiiro fight, a lot of the slashes miss, or are only superficial. There isn't much blood, although the little there is will probably be removed. And with Soujiro's past, although some will no doubt be edited, I think that the point will still get across. People will still understand how Soujiro was brutalized and ended up killing his family(if you can call them that). Just so you know, that's probably my favorite part overall too. Psychological battles are pretty cool when done right, and that one was done right. I've always wondered how Soujiro would measure up to Shishio in a fight.

The method by which Shishio was executed may be cut out, but I'm sure they'll let you know that he was supposed to have been killed by his own people. Plus his fight is again a relatively bloodless one. Those cauterized slashes won't need much if any editing. DBZ and Yu Yu Hakusho give just as bad on occasion.

As for the Oniwa Banshu, that will be interesting to see how they handle their deaths. If they do die. Okina's near death by Aoshi probably won't be too bad. He just won't gush blood when he falls over.

I still agree with you on many points, though. I wish they'd not screw with the show, but at least I get to see it again. I don't know why, but I always like watching things when they come on TV more than I do watcing them on DVD or VHS. But at least so far I've been pleasantly surprised at what's been left in. The only really blatantly bad edits I can think of off the top of my head have been with Jin-e.

Anything I did not respond too I either agree with, don't think is entirely important, or forgot.

-Laven Atries

[dwchang]

I am aware of those many things and while they will doubtlessly be editied, I don't think they will be removed altogether, at least not most of them. For Okubo's death, you'll probably see Soujiro appear on the carriage and you'll just have to assume he killed Okubo there. Also in the Soujiiro fight, a lot of the slashes miss, or are only superficial. There isn't much blood, although the little there is will probably be removed. And with Soujiro's past, although some will no doubt be edited, I think that the point will still get across. People will still understand how Soujiro was brutalized and ended up killing his family(if you can call them that). Just so you know, that's probably my favorite part overall too. Psychological battles are pretty cool when done right, and that one was done right. I've always wondered how Soujiro would measure up to Shishio in a fight.

Yeah I figured that much for Okubo's death, but again..it'll look RETARDED (like Jinei lunging with a sword and then cut away). As for Soujirou's fight/episodes. You must also realize though that Soujirou's past isn't exactly the most PC thing to be showing. He has an abusive alcoholic father (they have already edited out people drinking sake and saying stupid stuff like "get wild") and abusive siblings. You know how frowned upon this would be if they even remotely showed or implied child abuse. Oh and to make things worse, he murders his family. I think this entire episode will be edited to about 20% and you won't get any idea of the complex character Soujirou is. I don't think they can even "give you an idea" of his past like you say. His past isn't pretty (like Anji's) and I KNOW someone would say something about child abuse and alcohol.

Like you, this is my favorite part of the show. As for Shishio and Soujirou, I personally think Shishio would win, although Soujirou is stronger. Basically, the way I see it, although Soujirou is more powerful, I think his respect for Shishio wouldn't allow him ot beat him (or rather he doesn't think he could). However, he obviously can from seeing his techniqiues and how even Kenshin can't see them. Basically, a non-distracted Soujirou could probably beat anyone in the show other than Hiko Seijiro since he is so fast and has "natural" talent (Tenken).

The method by which Shishio was executed may be cut out, but I'm sure they'll let you know that he was supposed to have been killed by his own people. Plus his fight is again a relatively bloodless one. Those cauterized slashes won't need much if any editing. DBZ and Yu Yu Hakusho give just as bad on occasion.

As for the Oniwa Banshu, that will be interesting to see how they handle their deaths. If they do die. Okina's near death by Aoshi probably won't be too bad. He just won't gush blood when he falls over.

I don't know about that. You gotta realize this VERY superficial thing...the villains in DBZ aren't "human." In a retarded US cartoon sort of way, it's ok for OTHER things to die or be hurt, but not humans (God no!). I know this sounds stupid, but this happens COUNTLESS times in cartoons when we were kids. And although his fight isn't particularly bloody (although there are quite a few like him coughing up tons of blood, Kenshin being stabbed and bleeding, Yumi dying, etc.), you know they will edit it to the point where you ask yourself, "what's the point?"

As for the Oniwa Banshu, I don't think they will show them being shot to death by the gatling gun. You know how the US is about Gun Violence lately and it's quite graphic them being filled with holes.

When you look at edits like this, it really makes me wonder if CN even watched 2 episodes of the show. Things like this may be violent and I understand editing them for a children's block, but to do this is to essentially edit out the entire anime. They should've gone with Adult Swim and kept the edits to a minimum (ala Cowboy Bebop).

In any case, I'm pisssed

[El Banana]

When I saw it on Cartoon Network LA back home, they left soooo much more it's not even funny. All that part about Jin-ne they left in, cigars, etc. Hell i remember on one episode they show the shadows of two people fighting and a large amount of blood splattered on the wall, right in front of the camera.
Not to say it was left unedited tho.
**SPOILERS**
During the Kenshin Saitoh fight, I only noticed a single edit, but it was just God-Awful. When Kenshin jumps to evade the Gatotsu, and saitoh tries to stab him in mid-air, there's a scene where it seems Kenshin's been stabbed through. They cut the part of the sqord sticking out of the shirt as seen from the back. The edit was so nasty, you can hear a clear jump in the music.
And during the Kenshin/Shishio fight, they do not show Shishio is actually ON fire. The swords clash, there's a flicker of flames, then cut to some flames rising, then cut to the spectator's faces as they say things like "oooh, hes burning, look at him writhe..." "Look at him, he's on fire..." ridiculous.

[dwchang]

**SPOILERS**
During the Kenshin Saitoh fight, I only noticed a single edit, but it was just God-Awful. When Kenshin jumps to evade the Gatotsu, and saitoh tries to stab him in mid-air, there's a scene where it seems Kenshin's been stabbed through. They cut the part of the sqord sticking out of the shirt as seen from the back. The edit was so nasty, you can hear a clear jump in the music.
And during the Kenshin/Shishio fight, they do not show Shishio is actually ON fire. The swords clash, there's a flicker of flames, then cut to some flames rising, then cut to the spectator's faces as they say things like "oooh, hes burning, look at him writhe..." "Look at him, he's on fire..." ridiculous.

I thought they were only on episode 8. How'd you see this stuff? I'm fairly sure you're correct since those edits sound as stupid as CN has been.