Who understood the Ending of End of Evangelion? [SPOILERS]

[Kelin]

This is only my view... but:
I've heard that when Adam and Eve were created, they were perfect. Then they ate forbidden fruit, lost perfection, and etc. The reason 2 people could create 12 billion people (the estimated amount of all people that have ever lived), is because at the time they were so genetically near to perfection, deformities and mutations that show up in inbreeding now would not exist, since at the time the gene pool was near perfect, unaltered at the time being. That's why they could live to be over 900 years old. But to dispute that further, take another biblical perspective and think to the "Great Flood," of the time of Noah. His three sons and their wives had to repopulate the earth, so think about how many different combinations of genes were lost from the people that died in that flood. But they were still pretty, close to perfect, so... Back to the topic, I think that Shinji was given the power to turn all the human race to LCL, at his will. He had complete control. Asuka wasn't killed, she was just in the entry pod. I think the reason that they are the only humans left is because Shinji has this love/hate relationship with Asuka. You know... him seeing her beaten Eva unit the love part, and the strangling the hate part. He wanted Asuka, so she wan't turned to LCL, but at the same time, the hate... and so on. Oh well, lets just believe that the guy who pretty much created the story was... is crazy, mental institutuion stuff, and also tried compiling too many religious influences into one Anime with little explanation as to what each one is. I dont think those two will repopulate the earth or anything, they probably would kill each other first, nobody will regain their AT fields because now they have attained a certain ideal of perfection, and Asuka might have said that she felt disgusted because maybe she was still sick, doubt thats why, or maybe she felt that what had happened to the rest of the human race was disgusting. Oh well, thats my view, just as right or wrong as anyone else's. With Eva, who can really say that they understood all of it perfectly?

[dwchang]

I TOTALLY didn't understand the ending very much... Like how Asuka was killed by the Evas, THEN she was strangled by Shinji, OR at the end when she was with Shiji... She sais "how disgusting" Then, it was over!! Can ANYONE explain this part, or ANYTHING else from thr movie?? Thanks!

Dang...probably a long reply ahead.

So you wanna know what happens....I guess I'll try and go chronologically.

-Shinji just killed Kaworu...he feels horrible. Killed the one person who loved him..he has reached his lowest point (shown when he masturbates to a comatose Asuka).

-Gendo refuses to initiate third-impact the way Seele wishes. He will do it his way.

-Seele invades NERV to capture Adam/Lilith

-blah blah blah fighting...ppl die...Asuka dies (yes...MAS she DOES die).

-Gendo tries to initiate Third Impact (with Adam in his hand) with the use of Rei. Rei refuses and chooses Shinji. She goes back into Lilith with Adam inside her (b/c she took it from gendo.). Lilith and Adam are reunited..thus begins Third Impact. BTW Gendo was being selfish. He just wanted to see his wife. A bastard till the end.

-Really crazy, brain trippy things...door of "gauf" is open...third impact occurs. All humanity is reduced to LCL and absorbed by Lilith/Adam (that looks like Rei). The form of humanity without AT fields (AT fields keep our physical shapes, but also is what causes us to hurt each other and keep others away...makes sense..Absolute-Terror Field).

-We are happy in the goo...sort of like an "evolution." Hell it's called the Human Instrumentality Project.

-Since Shinji was in Eva01 and Rei chose him..he is literally in charge of man's fate. He goes through those self-searching things (as seen in the TV episodes 25/26 as well as somewhat in the movie). He finally decides to reject this fate and return to earth WITH an AT fields. Basically he rejected that "fantasy world" (in episode 26) b/c it's..not real. Basically one could say that the LCL form IS this "heavenly" form where we are happy, but at the same time it's not reality...

-In rejecting Third Impact, Shinji also gives all of us the same choice. My understanding is that every human being is going through the same self-searching (as seen in Rei/Asuka/Misato in their own chairs in Ep. 25). If we decide to come back...we can. Shinji gave us this choice. We can of course decide to stay (BTW I'm not making this up...this is literally SAID in the movie). Oh and the reason Rei's head pops off is to release all the LCL that was in her...remember that stuff spraying out of her and back to earth..that's us .

-Shinji comes out of the ocean (which is read b/c not everyone has come back yet...optimistically you'd like to think we all would choose to come back).

-My understanding is that since Shinji was basically a God (since he chose our fate), he also chose for Asuka to come back with him. The alternative answer would be that Asuka also came to the conclusion of coming back. Again, MAS she was dead or at least in LCL form. If not, why was she in Episode 25 going through the same self-searching? It is apparent she is obviously in the LCL. The question is if Shinji brought her back (since he had the power to choose, also so he isn't alone...it has also been mentioned the whole adam/eve scenario with him and her being the only humans on earth) or if she herself decided to come back. To be honest the answer is a moot point. He strangles her b/c that was the last thing he was doing..that feeling of her rejecting his love was still somewhat their. He cries obviously b/c he loved her too and realizes he is alone again.

-An open-ended ending where the viewer is left with the question of whether everyone else would come and start over or not. Ideally, since we all come out with the knowledge gained our "self/soul-searching" (in the chair..our ideal world...eps 25/26), we would come out better people and hopefully live our lives accordingly (just like Shiniji realizing all the positive things he did and triumphing). One could debateably say that THAT was instrumentality and not a forced "perfect" reality within the LCL since after all that soul-searching we come away with all that knowledge about ourselves and have self-worth.

Now as for meaning...the answer is simple. Eva is about Shinji. His problems and his eventual triumph. In broader terms, it's about our relationships with each other and how our "AT fields" can keep us away from each other and whatnot. The "Hedgehogs Dilemna" seems to be the best analogy for it (an episode title too). The whole show is about how we can live our own lives regardless of "AT fields" and hopefully realize our own self-worth, just as Shinji did (not worth in him piloting an Eva or from other's perspectives of him).

Interesting tidbit to add to the "story" side (and I do wanna remind you that the story part isn't that important..at the core Eva is about people..the story however cool and confusing as it is..is just a vehicle to tell a story about characters): The reason SEELE wants to initiate Third Impact so badly (other than the whole evolutionary/happy reason) is b/c of Keel...the chairman. After he "pops" and goes into LCL form, we see that his spine is metallic right? I have heard a great theory as to why this is.

Keel is basically the man who spat on Christ during the crucifixition. In Christian Mythology (NOT the Bible), the man who spat on Christ is cursed to live his life until the end of the world. Keel is that man and his motivations are obvious...he wants to finally die. So from a story standpoint, Keel initiated and planned all this so he could ultimately finally die. I find it pretty interesting all the little tidbits Anno put in...given it's just him taking all these religious things he deems "cool" and it really has no relevance to the meaning, but whatever.

I hope this all makes sense. I read the other replies, but didn't feel they explained everything. You want more details on ALL the specific events I can...hopefully this is enough. To be honest, ALL of this IS in the movie. They say almost all of it and the others are shown.

[dwchang]

The reason Asuka says she feels disgusting has many answers, it has already been covered that she could've just felt sick or whatever (hell Shinji just strangled her). An interesting answer (that I have posted in the past) is that Asuka is really just Anno talking. It has always been a rumor that Episodes 25/26 were Anno's true ending to Eva. The fans obviously rejected it (they sent death threats to him..no joke) since they were disappointed and he was "forced" to make a movie to explain the story elements.

In all honesty, I would've been fine with the TV ending, it focuses on the characters and there is enough to figure out what happened (hell they say third impact has happened and even show Misato and Ritsuko dead...for a few frames). Anyway continuing...

He made the movie...added the "story" elements we SO needed, but at the same time made it even more f'ed up (debateable if he meant to do that to frustrate us). In the end, Asuka says "kimochi warui" (i feel sick/disgusting) because Anno feels that way being forced into creating something he originally did not want to do. Apparently the TV ending WAS what he wanted...raw emotions and characters instead of story. People rejected it and of course he felt horrible.

Now I don't at all say that this IS the truth. We don't know for sure what Anno's true ending was, but it's a rumor I heard and has just as much merit as the others since he won't speak or answer questions.

[Beefmaster10000]

Surprisingly, I actually understood End of Evangelion.

[dwchang]

Surprisingly, I actually understood End of Evangelion.

I don't wanna sound arrogant (and I know ppl will think I am), but I feel the same way. That's why I decided to post...hopefully to clear some answers up. To be honest, it kind of annoys me when people just disregard all of it and just ignorantly say "ah man the show is just f'ed up!" when at it's core it has some great things to say about humanity and relationships.

Welcome to the club Beefmaster10000 (why the 10000 and not something like 5000? )

[Jebadia]

I've heard that when Adam and Eve were created, they were perfect

There is no right or wrong when it comes to the bible..but..? Frankly if you look at it, Adam and Eve were not perfect..they didn't even know they were naked, let alone know the difference from right or wrong. All they did was listen and do what God told them they could do. Whether the snake convinced Eve or not (since I believe the snake wasn't in the Jewish text), Eve began to question about things, pretty much about the tree (the tree of knowledge I think) and why God told her to not eat from it. (btw Eve was Adam's second wife. His first was Lilith, who was in most cases a play boy bunny compared to Eve)

Well further ahead in the story, Eve ate the apple, convinced Adam to do the same. (All this time the supposedly Omnipotent God was watching? Perhaps he wasn't so all watching until he let this mistake happen.) So God booted them out of Eden, and had some serpent and a guy with a flaming blade (am I right?) to guard the other tree. (the tree of life) If in fact they would of ate from the other tree, the would of pretty much became gods themselves.

Another think, did humans (Adam and Eve) have the ability to understand animals until they ate the forbidden fruit? Or was Even (now equipt with the knowledge of the 'lie') try to blame it on the snake (bad move, aparently she wasn't that smart yet) and expect God to fall for it? (this is probably why he booted them in the first place).

There is too many ways to interperate the story, and being nearly 3am..I think I should shut up...

[Kelin]

By, perfect, I meant more biologically than anything else. And perfection doesn't mean that they needed to realize that they were naked. In fact, part of being imperfect is being aware of your own downfalls, because you have them to look upon. Not knowing the difference between right or wrong, that also can't be considered imperfect. I think it is something like "ignorance is bliss." Not knowing what is wrong or right means that a person is dependent on outside forces to guide their choices, like a parent guiding a small child. Adam and Eve, yes Eve, not Lilith, because Lilith isn't part of purely biblical origins, she is from the Kabalah, hope I spelled that right, which is what alot of Eva is based on anyway, were like children. Parent (God), tells child not to touch stove, or they will get burned. Drunken Uncle (Serpent, Devil, whatever) wants to see the child get burned, so he tells one child to touch it, they do, get burned, then convince the other to do the same. I already see how this example has its flaw, fire, hot, stove, blah, so substitute stove for eating day-old mayonaise. This late at night it's hard to think of a good example. Oh, and God let it happen because he did give Adam free will, it was Adam's choice to knowingly disobey what God had said, the child made it's own mistake out of free will, and we are still getting burned to this day. And it was 2 angels with a flaming sword guarding the tree of life, which wouldn't make them gods, just able to live forever again, like they had before they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad. Animals, understand? No... otherwise we should really hate them for taking that ability away from us. Then we could all be beastmasters! I dont believe so, especially since animals dont really think that much, or other stuff... ya know? Dunno if Eve blamed it on the snake, but Adam sure tried to blame it on her. Oh yeah, last thought. There is a right or wrong when it comes to the bible, it's just finding it that's the problem, and a huge one at that. Geez, listen to me, I sound like an Evangelicast, it's just I happen to study religion, specifically Christianity, alot. Isn't Eva wonderful? It's filled with so much, that for many years now and for many to come it will be the subject of many discussions, debates, and a plethora of views from each individuals personal standpoint. But wow, dwchang's answers to the meanings are great, need to go back and watch again, this time keeping those points in mind. Argh, this subject is too much...

[Nightowl]

dwChang - the major theory regarding Keel is that he is Longinus, the soldier who pierced Christ while he was on the cross. His spear is, thought by some, to still be in existence, and contains just as much power as the Ark of the Covenant (as the spear actually touched Christ's blood). There are many varying stories regarding Longinus, as he doesn't exactly have a starring role in any of the various religious tomes.

Another fun piece of history - it is thought by some that Lilith, who has been demonized in most religious histories that teach her (Sumerian, Babylonian, etc.), that she was the first vampire. She has been represented as pure evil throughout the ages. The funny thing is, all Lilith really did was refuse to give in to Adam's demands. Unlike Eve, she chose to leave Eden. By all accounts, she was not only the first woman, but the first independent woman. In some cultures she's treated as a goddess, in others a demoness.

It's also important to remember that most of these stories were intended as allegories. It's only when you mix in fanaticism that you get religious cultures of today. Anno knew this, and so he treated Eva and its subsequent religious iconography more as metaphor, but every bit of it is important, from Keel's dilemna to Gendo's obsession (I still don't consider him a bastard, just an obsessive lover).

Also, if anyone wants to truly understand all that Eva has to offer, study religious history - it truly helps to read the Kaballa and the Dead Sea Scrolls. And, of course, don't forget about the Old Testament. Good reads, very violent, lotsa sex.

Oh, and Adam's and Eve's kids did in-breed. It's in the frigin' Bible. Why shouldn't Asuka and Shinji's kids? (Granted, everyone does have the choice to return) And listen to dwchang - Asuka is dead. Her arm was split in half. This was not a metaphor. She was so at one with her Eva she physically reacted to its pain, just as Shinji does with the stigmata. Think about that for a few minutes and imagine what she went through, then she wakes up to find Shinji choking her. I'm sure her saying "I feel sick" was absolutely true on so many levels. Mentally and physically, as well as allegorically.

Okay, I'm done talking.

-N

[Tom the Fish]

Shinji and Asuka will not be the last two people on Earth. Rei states that "Anyone can return to human form as long as they can imagine themselves in their own heart" when Shinji chooses for the people of Earth to return to their AT fields regardless of the pain. I'm assuming the reason that Shinji and Asuka are back first is because they were protected in the eva units.

As for Shinji strangling Asuka, I can't find the source right now, but Anno said in an interview or something (or maybe it was Tsurumaki, I can't remember right now) that Shinji's mind was still addled and it was his screwed up way of testing that the AT fields were there. He is proven right as Asuka berates his crying with the last words of the film "How Disgusting."

Tom

[AtomicWeezleman]

wow......yeah......

yet another theory on keel......it has been theorised that he could in fact be cain (cain and able), destined to wander the earth forever, no man allowed to strike him down etc etc (he did after all comit the first murder...)

as to the film, would explaine it, but dwchang got there before me (damn you, i will beat u one day!), so i would just be restating was already been stated......

oh yeah, gendo was a bastard to the end, but got his head bit off, he was refused instrumentality , he never turned into lcl.....

Lilith, wasnt she supposed to be both man and woman combined??? I was half listening to a friend about this...and it kind of makes sense, explaines the rei/kowaro part (hell, anything makes sense after enough beer...)

BTW, since anno got the death threats, he intentialy made the films as an 'UP YOURS' to the fans, it was supposed to leave us with more questions than answers. Anyhow, id be a bit pissed of aswell if i made a great series and people sent me death threats cos they thought it should have more fighting in it....