I just realized something sad. [about fansubs]

MAS PRODUCTIONS · Post by **MAS PRODUCTIONS** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:05 pm

Just to sum up my thoughts up until now, after reading all these posts:

People who download fansubs to find out if anime is good or not - This is the road I take, its almost impossible to determine if an anime is good from trailers or reviews. Unfortunatly anime isn't like movies where you lose 7 bucks if it sux.

People who download fansubs because it hasn't been released in US - I also take this road, its cool to watch anime when its released in japan. This is a good way to see up and coming anime as well as promote it to other people.

People who download because of lack of money - I too am quite broke, but that gives me no reason to download animes that have already been lisenced. It is true that DVDs are quite expensive, but it could be worse, in Japan dvds go for almost 50 dollars (yen to us conversion).

People who download anime because they think anime should be free like in japan - This has to be one of the most stupid notions I have ever heard. I agree with Dwchang on this one, if you want anime free like in Japan move to Japan.

More than likely here in the near future, programs like Kazaa and WinMX will no longer be available. Making it much harder to get anime. There are some uses for fansubs (number 1 and 2 on my list) but using fansubs in order to skip out on paying for them is just lame.

Kristyonna · Post by **Kristyonna** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:32 pm

This is more along the lines of the discussion I was hoping for. Hooray!

OmniStrata wrote:All ya'll digisub lovers sux0rs C0X0RS... Digisubs exist solely for one purpose. To be thrown into the garbage disposal...

Exactly. But is it so hard to comprehend that one viewing of a show is enough? I think my main problem is that I don't even understand why people buy really good U.S. television shows when they get released on DVD and I just don't look at anime as being any different.

Just one thing to clear up:

dwchang wrote:I'm pretty sure most of us know what you're complaining about. You're saying that it's unfair for companies to charge for something that is free some place else. It's not that hard to understand. It's also not that hard to answer that "injustice."

I never said it was "unfair". I'd do the exact same thing if I were in their shoes. It's a good way to make money. All I asked is, why should I be excited or even happy about it, especially when I hate English dubs? They take something that's free and make it so it isn't. Umm... Hooray?

Kristyonna · Post by **Kristyonna** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:42 pm

MAS PRODUCTIONS wrote:People who download anime because they think anime should be free like in japan - This has to be one of the most stupid notions I have ever heard. I agree with Dwchang on this one, if you want anime free like in Japan move to Japan.

This is THE disagreement right here. Some people think that a TV show is important enough that it's worth getting on DVD. TV shows are just not THAT good to me. Even if it were free, I'd still chuck it after watched it.

Kristyonna · Post by **Kristyonna** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:20 am

Anyway, I feel pretty satisfied the way this thread has turned out so far. The last statement by MAS PRODUCTIONS and the similar one by dwchang about how if you want it free, you should move to Japan, is a reasonable argument that made it clear to me why you guys feel the way you do. Figuring that out was the whole point of me going off in the first place.

Garylisk · Post by **Garylisk** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:24 am

Here we go

AbsoluteDestiny wrote: Having done fansubbing myself, generally what happens is that we'd continue fansubbing just for ourselves. I don't see this as an issue considering when I did fansubs I actually bought the anime from japan.

I was a translator for a fansub group called "Anime-Works" for a bit. We were doing Tenchi Muyo GXP. As a result, I have all of Tenchi Muyo GXP, but it's not subtitled... ALso, we didn't get very far into the show because our encoders and timers were lazy. But yeah, I see where you're coming from. (Unfortunately, we didn't buy the anime from Japan.. we were using TV rips.)

Kristyonna wrote: But are you seriously trying to tell me that if I see a fansubbed version of a really good show that I should go and buy it after it has been released domestically even though I'd never even open the packaging being as how I've already seen it?

My friend Schmoo has a lot of DVDs that are still in the shrink wrap.

Kristyonna wrote: Your argument sounds like you're suggesting fansubs should be done away with altogether by saying, if you want to see it once, you should pay for it. However, unless you've purchased every single fansub you've ever seen when it comes out domestically, that's only being hypocritical. If you have, then I really CAN'T argue with you.

Fansubs I have that are now out domestically:
Love Hina - I have all of the DVDs
Fruits Basket - Been buying the DVDs
Excel Saga - I had the fansubs, but lost them. Still am buying the DVDs
Chobits - Buying the DVDs
Sailor Moon S - Kinda waiting for a box set... I dunno if they'll ever release one.
Sailor Moon SuperS - Same. I dunno how long I'll wait.
Sailor Moon (Season 1) - I'm buying the uncut subtitled box set on Friday. 8) I hear from a friend who bought it that ADV did one hell of an awesome job.

That's about it

TsumiKi wrote: But not everything is coming out on DVD right away. I was watching DNAngel before it got licensed, and I am hooked. I'm in suspense over the plot. It's one of my favorites. But now I have to wait a couple years to see the rest of it because it got licensed. And I don't think that's fair. I have every intention of buying it when it comes out, but the least they could have done was waited until the show finished airing in Japan. Same thing with Wolf's Rain.

They're liscensing shows so quick so that the legit (THat's most of them) fansubbers will stop subbing sooner to stop the flow of the series online to stop the passing around of illegal copies later when it's out in the USA. If it weren't for the problem of illegal sharing, maybe they'd wait longer to liscense a show. Who knows.

SarahTheBoring wrote: I make crap money, $7 an hour, part-time, at my lame job.

I feel your pain. I make $5.50 an hour.

SarahTheBoring wrote: And I am DYING to see some of this stuff. But do you see me bitching and whining about how I "have" to steal what I want just because I want it? No.

*APPLAUSE*

EarthCurrent wrote: Ah, I remember back in the good old days when I was paying anywhere between $39 to $59 for anime on VHS tapes, and maybe getting an hour worth of anime per tape. And the "fansubs", hoboy, didn't usually have them, instead I had a 5th generation copy with no subtitles but a xeroxed english script you would follow. And I was happy to have that.

Few of you, I suspect, ever experienced the early days of anime fandom here in the states. It's a shame really, because if you had, it would help put things into perspective for you.

*headbangs*
Hell yeah! Back in the days of harcore fans!

I remember playing thru import RPGs the same way with a script sitting next to me. Damn right, man! Those were the days

Kristyonna" wrote: We're talking about paying for something that is absolutely free if you happen to live in Japan and is also free in the U.S. until it gets licensed. In my earlier post I made the point that, as far as advertising goes, I record everything I watch and fast forward through commercials anyway. And I would do this if I lived in Japan. Advertising executives would say I'm a criminal for this but I honestly just don't care. Everyone knows that's what VCR's are made for.

1) Most people don't record shows and fast forward through commercials. Most people sit thru them and let their brains rot

Thus, advertising is effective. Thus, the shows are aired for free.

2) Quitcherbitchin

3) Here's something that's free EVERYWHERE, but people still buy it all the time.

What is this amazing new product which quenches your thirst, tastes great, is fat free, calorie free, won't rot your teeth, and won't upset your stomach?! How could something so revolutionary exist?!

OH WAIT, IT'S WATER!!!!!!!!

So.. what's my point?

If you've ever bought bottled water, then shut up.

Kristyonna · Post by **Kristyonna** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:46 am

Garylisk wrote:Fansubs I have that are now out domestically:
Love Hina - I have all of the DVDs
Fruits Basket - Been buying the DVDs
Excel Saga - I had the fansubs, but lost them. Still am buying the DVDs
Chobits - Buying the DVDs
Sailor Moon S - Kinda waiting for a box set... I dunno if they'll ever release one.
Sailor Moon SuperS - Same. I dunno how long I'll wait.
Sailor Moon (Season 1) - I'm buying the uncut subtitled box set on Friday. I hear from a friend who bought it that ADV did one hell of an awesome job.

I am in awe.

Although I suspect much of that is just for the sake of "collecting". I'm not exactly the busiest person in the world and I still don't have enough time to see all the shows I want to watch, let alone buy them and watch them all again.

I guess having a collection is pretty cool. I should append what I said earlier about throwing out DVD's after I saw them if they were free for everyone. If they were only free for me I'd make a special place to display them just to show how cool I was.

Garylisk wrote:
If you've ever bought bottled water, then shut up.

Good thing I'm not that stupid.

Garylisk · Post by **Garylisk** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:51 am

Kristyonna wrote:
Garylisk wrote:
If you've ever bought bottled water, then shut up.
Good thing I'm not that stupid.

*APPLAUSE*

Nobody should ever buy bottled water.
A 10 cent cup of ice is acceptable.. cuz then you can fill it with water... and you're technically paying for the cup...

But bottled water... THey mass filter that shit. THey could sell it for something like 20 cents a bottle and make a profit

But no, it's $1.40 like all the other 20 oz bottles of stuff these days. Ridiculous

Kristyonna · Post by **Kristyonna** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:58 am

Garylisk wrote:
But bottled water... THey mass filter that shit. THey could sell it for something like 20 cents a bottle and make a profit But no, it's $1.40 like all the other 20 oz bottles of stuff these days. Ridiculous

And then they sell it at outdoor concerts in 110 degree weather and make sure there aren't any drinking fountains nearby. Those bastards. But I'd sooner die!

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:10 am

Kristyonna wrote:I never said it was "unfair". I'd do the exact same thing if I were in their shoes. It's a good way to make money. All I asked is, why should I be excited or even happy about it, especially when I hate English dubs? They take something that's free and make it so it isn't. Umm... Hooray?

Well I hate English dubs as well, but like having solid subtitled translations (although a few particular ones I don't trust). Why should you be excited? Because a show you love is going to get a bigger audience? You can get higher quality video? (big for me) You can get higher quality translations?

Sidenote: Say what you want about translators in industry, but I personally know two of them very well. One has a master's in japanese and one IS japanese. I trust their translations 100%. They have done such things as Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Lain, Rah Xephon, Noir, Xenosaga (not an anime), etc. At the same time, I do agree that some translators aren't that good, but also counter that fansubbers are the same. I think there are only a handful of them I think are as accurate as my friends. And yes...I've taken Japanese...although not THAT much.

At the same time, I don't disagree with keeping your fansubs and being happy with that, but as you have stated..the companies have every right to do this since A) there is demand for it ($$$) and B) people like me would like to have higher quality copies. As you said yourself, some people *would* be wiling to buy a TV series..hell I've debated getting the Simpsons and Babylon 5 boxsets. It's just how I feel...I like the shows and the convenience of a high quality version are big

...so yeah...those are my reasons.

Garylisk · Post by **Garylisk** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:15 am

dwchang wrote: Sidenote: Say what you want about translators in industry, but I personally know two of them very well. One has a master's in japanese and one IS japanese. I trust their translations 100%. They have done such things as Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Lain, Rah Xephon, Noir, Xenosaga (not an anime), etc. At the same time, I do agree that some translators aren't that good, but also counter that fansubbers are the same. I think there are only a handful of them I think are as accurate as my friends. And yes...I've taken Japanese...although not THAT much.

*sigh* *big starry eyes* *glazed expression*
My dream job...