I just realized something sad. [about fansubs]

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Garylisk
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Post by Garylisk » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:21 am

In response to a private message from a user that will remain anonymous, I wrote:

It's getting to a point where fansubs do more harm than good. The end, end of story, that's all folks. It's generally only people that are already anime fans that download fansubs, therefore only people who would look into a show anyway are going to see the subs. People who go to anime clubs, go to cons, watch anime on TV - They are mostly people who are already anime fans. Fansubs are not making the fansbase much bigger, really. Think about it. Why would someone who has little or no interest in anime download a fansub of something? The only reason I can think of is that a friend of acquaintance told him that he should check it out. And if he has friends or acquaintances that are anime fans, chances are he has enough exposure in his life, especially if he hangs out with these friends IRL rather than just on the internet.

Final assessment: Fansubs don't grow the community. Fans do.

If you wanna know what a series is like before buying it, read a synopsis or review. There's plenty of sites and magazines that do a good job of that. If the review sounds good to you, chances are, you might like the show.

In the end, your argument is just more of the same old justification to make you feel less guilty. And if that's not the case, it's just another argument for the side you believe is right.

In any case, fansubs really only serve one purpose, and that's so fans can see the show when it hits Japan instead of when it hits the USA. And of course, in the rare case, fansubs serve the purpose of bringing over a show that will probably never come over here anyway. I know I'm still waiting for anyone to liscense Kodocha, Hana Yori Dango, and Flame of Recca. I dunno if it'll ever happen, but til then, I have my fansubs of those shows, and they're not doing a whole lot of harm, if any.

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NME
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Post by NME » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:26 am

I fansubbed, and by fansubbed I mean took the loosely translated version of a show and reformatted it to make some semblance of sense in english.

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EarthCurrent
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Post by EarthCurrent » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:32 am

Garylisk wrote:I know I'm still waiting for anyone to liscense Kodocha, Hana Yori Dango, and Flame of Recca.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... 071#284071
EarthCurrent wrote:Well, <a href="http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article ... 3368">Hana Yori Dango</a> is known to have been picked up, but by whom is still a question. Flame of Recca has been licensed by Viz. TOKYOPOP continues to act like they are toying with the idea of picking up Kodacha, so with that title, we have a maybe. 2 out of 3 isn't a bad start.
I tell you things Garylisk, and you never listen :(

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OmniStrata
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Post by OmniStrata » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:54 am

rubyeye wrote:Oh yeah, Omni..

The law the REAL anime lover follows...
"TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!!!"


I do believe in this, but are there really that many WORTH buying??
Um, yeah... My top 10 is just a start. WORTH buying you say? So there's some worth stealing?! I doubt that... That's just being hypocritical. If you don't like it, then just don't download anymore, don't buy it, etc.

I hate these fucking idiots who say they can't afford it... Get a job... There's LOTS of good anime damnit... Download an unlicensed, wait a bit, then buy it... If good things are worth waiting for... Then anime is good for me... If it never gets licensed, you've got the digisubs to keep so, its a win win...

"WHAT IF THE ANIME IS LICENSED BEFORE THE FIRST EP AIRS!!!??"
Now THAT is a huge question and the basis of this thread I believe. Licensed anime are on the "coming soon" segments of domestic DVDs. You KNOW who licensed what. [and if you didn't, get out from under your rock...] They'll have DVD PREVIEWS of their stuff wouldn't they? Downloadable trailers?

http://www.pleaseteacher.net/trailers/index.html

*cough...

If this causes you to just hate anime and steal it... [since you're obviously a loser with no life and no job *cough] then you've got 2 things to do...

Leave the org... [it's anime and you obviously hate it...]
Leave the anime realm... [since it's not worth your time and precious money you can spend on your $400 shoes...]

The nerve of some people I swear... There is no "this is right/wrong" here. Unlicensed digisubs = "try before you buy". There's ALWAYS another option... Stealing is the loser's way out...

/me cries for the idiots... :cry:

Oh yeah, what if you have too many expenses for other things? Then well, wait. Anime comes out in boxsets over time don't they? W00H00! :D
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dwchang
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Post by dwchang » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:30 pm

Garylisk wrote: In the end, your argument is just more of the same old justification to make you feel less guilty. And if that's not the case, it's just another argument for the side you believe is right.
Amen!
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space

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Kristyonna
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Post by Kristyonna » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:00 pm

OmniStrata wrote: So there's some worth stealing?! I doubt that... That's just being hypocritical.

I hate these fucking idiots who say they can't afford it...
Oh for the love of...
I thought we'd cleared it up that no one here was saying they that they download fansubs after they've been licensed or even want to. It's illegal! Sheesh.
dwchang wrote:
Garylisk wrote: In the end, your argument is just more of the same old justification to make you feel less guilty. And if that's not the case, it's just another argument for the side you believe is right.
Amen!
DW? You too? I was going to ignore Garylisk and Omni because I figured they just hadn't taken the time to read what the actuall discussion was about but I know you did. This isn't about me or Garylisk's friend (the guy I was defending in the first place) justifying anything. It's about whether or not you like or dislike the way anime is being brought to the U.S. and if you're happy when something gets licensed.

If you want to say it's good/bad to download something when it's illegal, start a new thread.

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xasavier
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Post by xasavier » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:14 pm

Oi wait a second its easy 4 u 2 say that but what about people in england do u know the hell we go through. Do u know samurai x just came out on dvd this year. for fuck sake they only showed the film of cowboy bebop this month in one bloody cinema. do u know how difficult it is to get anime. and if we do get it we have 2 have a muilty regenal dvd player.

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Otohiko
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Post by Otohiko » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:35 pm

Oh, settle down people. There are those who can't afford stuff. That is still a bad justification.

I'll be honest with ya, I try to be as clean as I can be about it. I download fansubs before the show is licensed. I try to buy the show when it comes out. But yes, I have a LOT more fansubs than DVD's, and I don't end up buying half the series I see fansubbed (even if I like them) on DVD. Reason being? Lack of cash. Don't tell me I'm a liar. I don't. I work 12 hours a day. I still don't have enough cash to buy what I'd consider 'enough'.

But were it not for fansubs, I'd spend even less money on anime.

So, what to do? Stop downloading fansubs? Get rid of them when the show gets licensed? Work 14 hours a day instead of 12?

Seriously, let fansubs be fansubs. They don't do harm.

All this 'thievery' has only one real justification - the virtue of common practice. While downloading is common practice, I don't anticipate it to stop. While fansubs are common practice, don't anticipate it to stop.

I don't even now what everyone is talking about anymore. Even me.
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Timelessblurr
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Post by Timelessblurr » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:03 am

I have my own personal guild lines for downloading Anime. I believe Garylisk can not get on my case for the rules I use. I used to be one of those people who download anime for free. I downloaded the entire Evegleon seirse (well most of it i missed a few episode but that not the point). My friend Jessi she jump on my case for it and made me feel pretty guilty about it. Shortly to say is been deleted from my HD. Since then I run only by my rules. I first had that though anime was only for kids. Jessi was the one who interduce me to first anime then showed me what mangas where. That intuctoin to anime was 4 years ago. I learned about manages about 2.5 years ago when Jessi loaned me some. Now I have a entire book shelf to my mangas.

Now it one thing to download Anime to preveiw it. Like one 2 epiods if it a long seirse or just to find out about it to see if it any good. If you like it buy it. I heard that I dont have the money crap. Get a job and do what we make a buget. Right now I make an average of 120-150 a week at my job. I have 20 buck a week on gas. I trying to save 50 a week replace the damgae to my savings (a lot harder than it sound when you want lots of anime) plus I spending quite about of my money haning out with my friends. So yeah I pretty broke. I will say I have save up quite abit of money to so I can buy the anime that I want pretty easily but I work hard to get that much money and the saving to take that hit. Next year will not be working because of school so my anime flow will slow down. Does it mean I going to down load more HELL NO it wrong and it stealing.

The reason to buy DVDs
1. the quilty of them is a lot better than the downloaded copies
2. It means you are supporting the anime. If you only download anime I not going ot call you a fan of SHIT. YOU ARE NOT AN ANIME FAN you are worthless in the eyes of the producer.
3. I glade to see more compians starting to produce anime and some compains that have lots of money backing them. And good example is Pioneer. Right now I noticed they seem to make the best dubs out there. They are going though the trouble of getting some big name people to do there voice acting and good vioce acting. (good example is armitage Dual Matix the Dub is admazing well down. Vampire D is also good. The movie was made in engish only Pioneer produce it) The more people buy the more the big names compains with get into which means more anime here in the states for us and it cheaper.

Reason I see it ok to download
1. You want to preview the anime with one or 2 epiosods and you are siersly considering buying it. I can understand those people wiht a limited bugget. I done this before and it the reason I have a first few tenchi OVA right now. Normal I will try buying one of the DVD first but I prouble have more disposble income than a lot of you. (still it not much but I can afford to buy a movie a week most of the time).

2. It not lissan for realiese in the unitled states. Ok download it but please for the love of god buy it when it does come out if you like it. It genral worth watching it again since the quiltly is a lot better and the subtitle prouble has better translatoin but I not going ot be as mad if you dont buy all of them. A least buy some of them (I have 3 love hina DVD under this rule I want to finish off them off but Anime Bugget as other heave drains on it right now. Lot of Transformer stuff. Some mangas I want. I do have all the love Hina Mangas right now. Transformer stuff and other DVDs)

3. You know the DVD are going to be realise soon and you will be buying them as soon as they come out. You own the ones already realise and will be buying the rest you just can not wait that long to get farther into the story. Or be you love the seirse that much. (Under this rule I am currently downloading As much of Please Teacher as I can from episond 9 on. I bought the limited eddtion box 1 and the 2nd DVD. I just can not wait for the rest of the story to unforld so hince I downloading it. I deperate for the next DVD to come out. I discover Please Teacher Tuesday of this week buy a preiveiw in the 3rd .hack DVD. I look cool enough so I got the limited edditon first DVD box because it had the sound track with it. I really like animesound tracks and they are hard to come buy. so I will to spend the 50 for for. Plus I got the mangas. Watch the DVD if suck I would not of gotten the 2nd. The next Day I got the 2nd one. I own both the mangas and I really love the story on it. Hence I downloading the rest of the seirse instead of waiting but the day of the realiese I will be a best buy getting the DVDs. I will be going to the best buy close to Texas Tech next year after the first day of clase to get the 3rd Please teacher DVD and the 4 .hack DVD limited (for the sound track alone makes it worth the extra money).)

If you go buy those rules I dont think there will be that much bitching. For all of you saying you dont have money shut the fuck up. If you can not get a job then do work aroudn the house for money. That what I did before i got a job. Oh and you can do what we call SAVE but most people can not do that anymore because they find other stuff they want right then in there.
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Timelessblurr
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Post by Timelessblurr » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:39 am

I forgot to add something. I willing to bet most of you who are anime fans have friends who are 2 and they own some of the anime. You can borrow some of theres. That was how I saw Akria and a few others. Did I buy them no. Did I download them no. I borrowed them from a friend to see it. Renting it or borrowing it even better than downloading an episod or 2 see if you like it. I want to get akria right now because I really like the movie.
If humans don't want me....
Then why'd they create me?
Armitage from OVAs

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