Speculation On The Mysteries Of Evangelion ***SPOILERS***

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EvaXephon
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Speculation On The Mysteries Of Evangelion ***SPOILERS***

Post by EvaXephon » Thu May 27, 2004 8:03 pm

Before you read - Watch Out - Spoilers Ahead!

...Did you come here expecting a joke topic? I hope not. I wanted to have a serious discussion about Evangelion. Yeah. I know that the most popular topics here aren't about discussing anime, and are about having fun, but there are already lots of other topics about that...

Number One : Why Does Rei Keep On Popping Up?!

In the first episode, Shinji sees Rei for a moment while he's walking the streets of Tokyo 3. When Kaoru dies, Rei is up in the rafters, watching. The series was made without an end in mind, just an idea, so they might have meant to have explained it, but they never really did...in the series. In the movie, however, they may have; we see Rei appear like that again. When Misato dies, we see Rei looking over her body for a split second. When Ritsuko gets shot, she sees Rei as she goes flying. And the bridge bunnies see Rei right before they all turn into LCL.

My Answer : People see Rei before they die.

But that doesn't explain Rei's appearance to Shinji in episode one. In the movie, Rei says (something like) "I am the human embodiment of Hope." This could mean that it was the first sign of hope in Shinji's life, or something.

But some people say that Rei appeared to Kaoru in order to cancel out his AT field with her own so EVA01 could grab him. I think that's a bunch of hooey! Kaoru wanted to die, so he would have just lowered his own AT field, didn't need Rei to use her own to do it for him. Makes more sense than the other explanation, huh.

Number Two : Who Shot Kaji?

In the Evangelion Manga, it is revealed who shot Kaji. Highlight the quote if you wanna know who did it in the Manga.
In the Evangelion manga, Kaji's killer is...Gendo! That's right, Gendo shoots Kaji. (Twice, because he missed the first time! XD)
However, the many differences between the two series make it clear that they're not the same, so I'm going to speculate on this one.

My Answer : Baby Animal Lady.

Now, I'm sure you're thinking, "WTF R U TALKIN ABOOT?!" Well, do you remember that lady who was feeding the kittens while talking to Kaji? Do you remember the lady who was petting the puppy while she and Kaji rode up an elevator? To me, she always seemed like a SELEE employee. I've always thought it was her. Why? ...Ionno. BUT I'M SURE IT IS >_<

Number Three : Why can only 14-yr-olds pilot the EVAs?

My Answer : I've always thought it was because only children who were conceived the night of Second Impact could pilot. Doesn't that seem like a good reason?

Number Four : Is Maya Ibuki..........A Lesbian?

Most people who think this say "Maya called Misato and Kaji 'Disgusting' for making out, so she must think that man + woman = wrong. She's gay!"

Maya Ibuki said "Sex Fiends" not "Disgusting" when she saw Misato and Kaji on top of each other, so I don't think that's the right argument. However...

My Answer : Lezzie!

In the original storyboards for the EoE movie, there were supposed to be little hearts floating around Maya when she embraced Ritsuko. I think her admiration of Ritsuko was something more than just that - love, and the lesbian kind.

Number Five : WTF Was Asuka talkin' 'bout at the end of EoE, Anyhow?!

My Answer : Anno had her saying "NO! I won't let you kill me!" In the original storyboards for the movie, so I think that was the meaning behind her cryptic line, "How disgusting," and that she wasn't expressing distaste for Shinji at all.

Number Six : Okay...This Is Just Something That I Wanted To Say!

Some people just plain have the wrong idea about what happened in the EVA movie when that imitation Lance of Longinus pierced EVA02. Here's how people THINK it went down :

1. Production Model Eva : *Throws a lance at EVA02*

3. EVA02 : *Runs out of internal energy, and AT Field Collapses*

2. Lance : *Pierces EVA02's Head, since there is no AT field to protect her*

Here's what REALLY happened :

1. Production Model Eva : *Throws a lance at EVA02*

2. Lance : *Pierces EVA02's AT Field and head*

3. EVA02 : *Runs out of internal energy*

If her internal energy had run out before the lance pierced her, she wouldn't have felt any pain from the lance. Instead, she did feel pain, because THE ENERGY HADN'T RUN OUT YET. Just had to clear that up.

...So...Now, go forth, and speculate on the mysteries of EVA! >.<
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Post by HeartbreakerByZep » Thu May 27, 2004 8:33 pm

Why does Rei keep popping up? She's GOD!!

I don't know how, I don't know why, but when Adam and Lilith became one, Rei became the Almighty. She exists at all points in time. The fashion in which she appears at the start and end of the series shows that she is viewing over all the events of Evangelion.

Plus it has a major importance in connecting Neon Genesis Evangelion to the Revelation of Saint John The Divine. It's really the same thing.

Other than that, yeah maybe Rei is a symbol of hope, the hope that people can understand each other. Maybe she is trying to understand humanity. Either that, or she just wanted to check out the 3rd Pilot before and after the period in which she can see him in person. (Or rather, person to person) :D oh man, Rei is so great....

Anyway... other stuff...

Number Three - it certainly sounds like a good reason, but the pilot's ages differ a lot. I don't know if pregnancy differs that much.

Number 4 - of course Maya's a lesbian ;)

Numbe 5 - Don't ask me, I know little more of this than I know of Rei's origin (physical Rei, not Divine Rei). Maybe she ment that life is disgusting... I mean, she did just die... and get reborn. That can't be fun, can it? Death may have been sweeter than life for her... and to awaken with Shinji on top of you.... But again, I don't know about that line, I'm just making stuff up.
Look at all my trials and tribulations
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Don't disturb me now, I can see the answers
'Till this evening is this morning, life is fine.

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Re: Speculation On The Mysteries Of Evangelion

Post by Scintilla » Thu May 27, 2004 8:48 pm

EvaXephon wrote:Maya Ibuki said "Sex Fiends" not "Disgusting" when she saw Misato and Kaji on top of each other, so I don't think that's the right argument.
Only in the dub. The sub reads "How disgusting."
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Post by HeartbreakerByZep » Fri May 28, 2004 2:29 pm

EvaXephon wrote:...For some reason, I knew that this topic would make HeartBreaker appear...
All topics summon my presence, friend. I just don't post on most of 'em. It's known fact that Rei is the holy Lord, although I may be one of the few that worships. :)
Look at all my trials and tribulations
Sinking in a gentle pool of wine.
Don't disturb me now, I can see the answers
'Till this evening is this morning, life is fine.

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Re: Speculation On The Mysteries Of Evangelion

Post by dude42 » Fri May 28, 2004 2:49 pm

EvaXephon wrote:But that doesn't explain Rei's appearance to Shinji in episode one. In the movie, Rei says (something like) "I am the human embodiment of Hope." This could mean that it was the first sign of hope in Shinji's life, or something.
There has been speculation in some circles that the series was Shinji recapping his life, seeing as episodes 25 and 26 were him going thru instrumentality. So yeah, him seeing Rei could be explained by this.

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Post by azulmagia » Fri May 28, 2004 6:24 pm

Rei keeps appearing for the same reason Mishima appears again and again in RahXephon.

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Post by MDWigs » Sat May 29, 2004 4:53 am

Number One : Why Does Rei Keep On Popping Up?!

In EoE, it's because they were the harbingers of death.

Here is a translation of Eva Cardass Masters card game P-R1 card (translation by Bochan_Bird):
"All life was drawn indiscriminately into the world desired by the medium/avatar Shinji. Led by the Reis -- the messengers of salvation -- hurt and suffering hearts dissolved into homogeneous LCL. Even those who did not wish salvation were powerless to resist. Aoba frantically rejected Rei, but the A.T.Field that protected him had already lost its power."
I've always thought her appearance at the beginning of Eva was symbolic of hope too. Perhaps the hope that Shinji could reconcile with her father (that Anno could reconcile his whole life ^_^).

Number Two : Who Shot Kaji?

Ryoji Kaji is probably the coolest character in Neon Genesis Evangelion. He was a "Triple Agent", working for the Special Inspections Division of NERV, the Investigations Department of the Japanese Ministry of Internal Affairs, and also directly for SEELE. He was the "James Bond" of Evangelion, he did all the cool stuff, he slept with the hottest babe (Misato Katsuragi), he was always searching for the truth, and in the end his actions brought about his demise. In Evangelion Episode 21, with the famous last words "Hi! You're late.", the gunshot sounded and Kaji was killed.

Debate has raged for years among Eva no Otaku over who shot Kaji. We never see the shooter, never hear them speak, we only ever see Kaji greeting them (nonchalant as ever) and then hearing the gunshot.

First I shall attempt to disprove the notion that wasn't even shot, that it was all an elaborate ruse. This theory circulates most among the legions of devoted Kaji lovers out there, who can't stand to believe that their favourite character was shot and killed. There is ample evidence within the series itself to show that Kaji is dead including Misato crying over the answering machine. Asuka suggesting in episode 22 when the phone rings that it could be Kaji and Misato saying that it couldn't be him, and Shinji telling Asuka directly that Kaji is not coming back. The most straightforward way of disproving that notion though it to refer to The End of Evangelion - Theatrical Program, which is an official canon document. It states direct that that Kaji was shot to death. He is dead.

But who killed him? Who shot Ryoji Kaji?

A lot of Japanese viewers thought that Misato Katsuragi shot Kaji. They believed that, among other things, because you see the door of Misato's apartment closing just after the gunshot (you see the name plate on it saying "M. KATSURAGI"), it must mean that Anno Hideaki (the director/creator of Evangelion) wanted to hint that Misato killed Kaji. Anno never intended this cut to be a clue of any sort. In fact he was taken aback when he heard that's fans thought it was Misato. He stated directly that it wasn't Misato and he even edited Evangelion Episode 21 for the Japanese Video release to remove the cut of the door saying "M. KATSURAGI", putting in a cut of the street instead. He removed it because he didn't want people thinking it was Misato! He was actually shocked that people thought it was Misato and was embarrassed that people thought they found "hints" where there were actually no "hints" at all. Some also point to where Misato threatened to kill Kaji in Evangelion Episode 15 as proof that she actually did in Episode 21. This doesn't hold up though because by Episode 21 (and this is show specifically at the end of Episode 20) Misato and Kaji are both doing the same thing, "looking for the truth", after Kaji is killed the baton is passed onto Misato to uncover the "truth".

Anno has said straight out that it wasn't Misato who shot Kaji. Also in the "Checkpoint" section of the official film book, it states that the person who shot Kaji was not a main character. It was some nameless security officer from either NERV or SEELE.

In the original scenario for Episode 21 there is a scene where one of the NERV security officers enters Gendou's office and tells him that Fuyutsuki has returned but that they couldn't find the man who kidnapped him (which of course is Kaji).
Then the scene that follows is where the NERV security officer goes to Misato, gives her gun back, and tells her that "it's over now" and that they "don't know where 'he' is". It seems clear that nobody at NERV knows where Kaji is.

SEELE would though. In Evangelion Episode 20 SEELE refer to Kaji as a bell attached to Gendou Ikari's neck but which doesn't ring. Then they say that they will make the bell work. Kaji kidnaps Fuyutsuki for SEELE, but then in the end he frees him. In the redone Evangelion Episode 21 there is added dialogue between Kaji and Fuyutsuki, Kaji is warned by Fuyutsuki, that by freeing him is probably going to get him killed, by Kaji replies that "They", referring to SEELE, have found out that Kaji stole Adam (in Evangelion Episode 08) from them and gave it to Gendou. The passage is as follows:
Fuyutsuki: It's you.

Kaji: It's long since the last time.

Fuyutsuki: This action will result in your death.

Kaji: I just want to get closer to the truth... the truth within me. Besides, it seems they're catching on to the fact that I smuggled the Adam sample for Commander Ikari. If I don't start looking out for myself, things could be looking grim... for me.
To further support that notion here is an excerpt from the description of episode 21 found on page 83 of the Newtype 100% book. "...Kaji frees Fuyutsuki, but that act costs him his own life. Misato is released and returns home, where she infers Kaji's death from his message on her answering machine..."

It seems clear that SEELE wanted Kaji killed. As to who shot him, well Anno has said it wasn't a main character, that it was a third party, just a security officer. There is not "hidden truth" to Kaji's death, SEELE had him killed but not in an important way, they just sent a security agent to shoot him. Kaji faced death, as he had always faced life, with the indifferent coolness that won him so many fans. Ryoji Kaji rest in peace.


Number Three : Why can only 14-yr-olds pilot the EVAs?

It's not because they were all conceived the night of the Second Impact. All of the children have very different birthdates (they are in fact mostly references to their Japanese Voice actors birthdates).

Ikari Shinji: June, 6th
Souryuu Asuka Langley: December, 4th
Horaki Hikari: February, 18th
Suzuhara Touji: December, 26th
Aida Kensuke: September, 12th

So they can't have all been conceived the night of the Second Impact.

"The reason for which the principal character is fourteen years old is that he is not any more child, but not yet adult. ... By considering "fourteen years" as the age where an independence of mind appears, I found convenient to include that with my work." - Interview with Hideaki Anno - NewType 6/1996

Fourteen is only significant with respect to the psychological development of the children. It's not a magic number though. Rei isn't 14 and neither is 15, also when Asuka first arrives she is only 13.

Number Four : Is Maya Ibuki..........A Lesbian?

Well EoE is the best evidence for this. In EoE when Ritsuko appears she types "I need you" one Maya's computer. And then when she finally reverted to LCL, Anno described Maya's final "ah!" on the storyboards as "Koukotsu ni mitasarete" ("submerged in ecstasy"). Also as noted in the Newtype filmbook for Magokoro wo Kimi ni, Maya's lines have hearts around them. She is gay.

Number Five : WTF Was Asuka talkin' 'bout at the end of EoE, Anyhow?!

To translate "kimochi warui" you must first fully understand how Asuka was feeling by the end of the last scene. This is what causes all the problems because the line can be interpreted in a number of different ways depending on how you perceive the situation and it is a classic example of what makes Neon Genesis Evangelion so brilliant.

The following is a list of possible translations, and then my interpretation of what the line means. Please note that this is just my interpretation; it is what I think. There is no one correct translation.

"kimochi warui" can translate to:

I feel sick
I don't feel well
What a disgusting feeling
How disgusting
I don't like this feeling
This feeling sucks

Of course this is by no means an exhaustive list but you get the idea. Now as to what I think it means; I think the clues lie in the only two other times that "kimochi warui" is uttered in Evangelion. The first time it is said is in Evangelion Episode 01 when Shinji Ikari "breathed" LCL for the first time. LCL is "kimochi warui" according to Shinji.

The second time it is said by Asuka herself, in the Redone Evangelion Episode 22. In the bathroom scene just after the scene of Asuka talking on the phone with her "mother", Asuka says (translated into English):
Kimochi warui.
Who wants to bathe in the same water that Misato and Baka Shinji have bathed in?
Who wants to use a washing machine that Misato and Baka Shinji have washed their
underwear in?
Who wants to sit on a toilet that Misato and Baka Shinji have used?
Who wants to breath the same air as Misato and Baka Shinji?
The scene goes on from there. Basically she is complaining about how she has to live in the same space as Misato and Stupid Shinji.

I think that maybe Asuka said "kimochi warui" at the end of Evangelion Episode 26', the end of The End of Evangelion, because she was recalling when she was in LCL, as LCL herself, and when her mind was being merged with the whole of humanity. She was saying "kimochi warui", "How disgusting."(as I prefer to translate it), because of everything she just went through, both physically and mentally, physically because of he being in LCL, of being LCL when she lost physical form, and mentally because in that state, and during Instrumentality her soul was bared to the world, she wasn't just sharing Shinji and Misato's bath and toilet and air, she was in a way sharing them with everyone else in the world. That is my take on it at least. Of course like everything in Eva, and as Hideaki Anno said; "We all have to find our own answers.".

Something interesting to note is that Asuka's original last words (in the storyboards) were supposed to be "...Anta nanka ni korosareru no wa mappira yo" which translates roughly into "No Way, I'll never let you kill me". Apparently Anno Hideaki asked Asuka's Seiyuu (Voice Actor) Miyamura Yuuko to think about another line and the infamous "kimochi warui" is what she came up with. So Asuka's last words were written by Miyamura and not Anno, which provides a very interesting insight into Miyamura's opinion of him and the show ^_^

Number Six : Okay...This Is Just Something That I Wanted To Say!

I think this more has to do with Asuka achieving a 400% sync rate with Eva-02, but this is another issue. Eva-01 can move without power (even before it got an S2 Engine), I don't see why Eva-02 shouldn't be able to.

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Post by EvaXephon » Sat May 29, 2004 12:27 pm

..........

DAMMIT, MDWIGS! >_<

Your answer was so perfect, how the hell can anyone expect to actually post something after that! Damn! Now the thread will die! Well, you gave me exactly what I wanted, what I've been thinking about ever since I saw eva, so I thank you alot for that, at least. Thank you very much....Did you copy and paste those answers from somewhere, though? It feels like I've read some of them before...

...No thanks to Nestorath, though, because he's not obeying Phade's forum rules...
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Post by MDWigs » Sat May 29, 2004 9:19 pm

I copied and pasted most of them previous forum posts of mine (on other forums). The "Who killed Kaji" and "Kimochi Warui" ones I've been posting around for years.

I'm glad I could be a help/hinderance though ^_^

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Post by ein-stein » Sun May 30, 2004 1:03 am

My 2 cents...

#5
EoE ends with two people on Earth a.k.a. Adam and Eve.
Adam = Shinji
Eve = "Asuka"
BUT look closely at the one I will refer to as Eve.

Image
Face = Asuka
Red Hair = Asuka
Brown Eyes = Misato
Clothing ≈Misato
Bandage = Rei
etc...

In NGE the charaters Asuka, Misato, and Rei are the three most important females (and maybe people) to Shinji. He has 'special' lovelike relationships with all three. THEREFORE Shinji's Eve is a composite of Asuka, Misato and Rei!

Get it?

Anyway, it's Eva. Don't think to much about it. If you want to watch anime to think and feel about, try shoujo, it's good for you. ^_^
Shoujo Fanatic (Kare Kano, Fruits Basket, Ceres,...)

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