Negative Image of Women?

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:18 pm

I do think some anime degrade women, but I don't mean the 'hentai-ish' anime like Laberynth of Flames that just make the females sex objects - I don't mean the bodies so much as the characters, the stereotypes.

And it's not all anime, and it's not usually any worse than you'd find on some television shows, but I still see it.

It's in Rurouni Kenshin when Kaoru falls apart and just sits crying and gasping and completely useless, barely twitching and being the epitome of the weak sensitive female. Sure, she's got a *lot* of great qualities that make me like her more than most other anime females, but she still has that horridly useless cliche female role of damsel in distress and source of waterworks/pitiful drama going on. And she is the softest example I can think of - the 'least' degrading one of many.

There *are* characters who get the feminine but strong roles, like Hikaru from Magic Knight Rayearth - even when she's crying, she's doing it while fighting - she doesn't become useless just because she *feels* things. So you have the 'cliche' female soft portrayal but also strength - this is the sort of anime female I like, and they are rare.

Even the ones that have women doing men's jobs, the detective women, the super-hero females, they're either falling apart all the time (think SailorMoon needing to be rescued constantly and only being strong when she absolutely has to), or they're ditsy to a fault (think Tenchi - Mihoshi is this, while Kayone is one of those rare 'strong' females that defy the cliches).

I see three 'stereotypes' for anime females that annoy me the most:

1) The soft damsels, like Beldandy, Yukina (YYH), Emerade (MKR), Tomo (CCS). These are the sweet ones, who even if they have power, they almost never use it and are mostly there to be the soft female character who is endearing, but mostly useless and dependent on a strong sensitive male character.

2) The bossy females - the epitome of the 'wife' figure that comes out in Inuyasha with Kagome, in Love Hina, in DBZ. These women are the ones who are only strong with their boyfriends or men who 'like' them - they're the ones who are so annoying and abusive no man would ever take them - except in anime. They tend to be emotional at all times, either crying or angsting, or yelling and beating on the guys. And their usual 'redeeming' quality tends to be physical appearance and some sort of 'endearing' personality that rarely comes out amid the humor-prone abuse. Kaoru falls into this occasionally as well - another of those things that keep her from being one of the 'non-degraded' female characters.

3) Then there are the sex objects. These may be in a position of power, but they're mostly there for the panty shots, the leg shots, the breast bounces, and the usual fanservice. They may be abusive as well, but they tend to be more physical than anything. These have weak personalities - weak as in 'unreal' in that they're only cliches. If they have strong personalities it's either ruined by the fanservice or prone to being bossy and annoying. The 'nice' ones are usually so simple minded or useless, they again become mostly for show - something to look at with a center role in the series.

Those are the cliches, the 'degrading' character types that annoy me most about anime females. Yes, there *are* strong females, but a lot tend to get ruined by these cliches. Maybe they aren't quiet 'homemakers' like American degrading females, but they're still stereotyped a lot in anime.

Compared to the wide range of male characters - from the sensitive 'effeminate' ones who have the 'female' emotions - to the stereotypical muscle men who tend to be dumb - to the clever masterminds - to the mixed emotional and powerful ones. They get stereotyped as well, but it's a lot easier to find a male character who isn't useless and degraded than it is to find a female character I'd respect as a character. One of the reasons I don't like anime females is because they almost *always* get those annoying stereotypical attributes added to them, things that annoy me since I like my female characters just as strong or emotional as the male characters I like to watch. And it's hard for me to find those strong female characters without them being 'bodies' aimed at fanservice. The strongest females tend to be the sex objects, in a position of power but essentially a body to be seen rather than a personality that isn't degrading to my idea of 'strong' females.

So...I suppose it depends on what makes a strong respectable female character to you. For my definition, my preferred type, there are few, very very few in anime. Which means, for me, a lot of anime certainly does degrade females to the point where I dislike the majority of them.

Krypton-Knight · Post by **Krypton-Knight** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:47 pm

Well said Arigatomyna, I'm not sure if its just because I'm a guy but I didn't really notice the weakness's in the characters that are seemingly strong, or powerful. But with what you said it seems there's a cath 22 to strong female characters.

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:53 pm

Now only if they had a couple animes with a female equivalent of Dirty Harry or John Wayne, but, to quote the Duke from The Searchers(1956): "That'll be the day!"

How hard would it be to throw in a female character that thinks like a man: who does what they do for a living because they like the job, or are good at it, instead of playing the whole "pity me because I'm a helpless woman" game? Because I can, I'll throw in a "Dirty Harry" reference. In the film "The Enforcer", Harry has to team up with a rookie female cop. He doesn't have a problem with women on the force, so long as they work as hard and meet the same requirements as a man. But no matter how he tries to get this point across, all the women in the movie (except his new partner) see him as a sexist pig.

There's only one point in the film he tries to "save the day", because his partner is getting boxed in by a group of scumbags. He only helps out in this instance, because she won't draw her .357 Magnum on the group, and pay for her respect in lead.

Anime females in general seem to either cling to men to do all the work, or bitch-slap them around for being letchers. So, I will give the same advice to you on this topic as I say to any woman I meet who plays the gender card (and quickly get bitched at for it). "If you don't want attention, don't advertise!"

JFF · Post by **JFF** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:57 pm

your sister sounds like a stuck up feminist who is probably ugly and won't succeed in life..sorry to tell you that =[

Angel_of_Truth · Post by **Angel_of_Truth** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:07 pm

wellll i do think theirs some animes that do that but those r only the ones that are like porno otherwise u need to show ur sister other animes to show her that not all r like that

Angel_of_Truth · Post by **Angel_of_Truth** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:11 pm

oh one more thing on some animes women arnt only used like for thier look s most of the anime that star women have women that are very powerfull and not slutty and like women that think they should stay home and cook for their famlys and do chores and stuff they play powerfull roles tell ur sister to watch those and mabeyf shell change her mind about anime

Charizard305 · Post by **Charizard305** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:24 pm

JFF wrote:your sister sounds like a stuck up feminist who is probably ugly and won't succeed in life..sorry to tell you that =[

that was uncalled for...

JFF · Post by **JFF** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:34 pm

I'm sorry, I was just kidding though....

But she has to realize that having big booobies doesn't mean a girl is degraded. Its a sign of fertility and is a prime factor by which many males choose their mates.

Also, sex sells. Men have money since they on average have higher paying jobs than women and statistically they have way more full-time jobs than women. SO its logical to make things that appeal to men, I didn't make society like this, but thats how it is.

Charizard305 · Post by **Charizard305** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:49 pm

JFF wrote:I'm sorry, I was just kidding though....

My apologies.

But she has to realize that having big booobies doesn't mean a girl is degraded. Its a sign of fertility and is a prime factor by which many males choose their mates.

Very True, Its male nature to be attacted to big breasted females, then there are some on the other hand that like them, alittle smaller. like me ^_^.

Also, sex sells. Men have money since they on average have higher paying jobs than women and statistically they have way more full-time jobs than women. SO its logical to make things that appeal to men, I didn't make society like this, but thats how it is.

Also, very true. My mom brought up this point a few months ago. Why dont Anime characters look like the Japanese. Not only is it the stule that makes them look like they do, Anime is drawn to make money, like you said. since a good portion (i dont know the numbers) of the viewers are male studies show that (somewhere) and the Anime companies adjust for it to make the biggest profit. Thats just the way it is.

Moonlight Soldier · Post by **Moonlight Soldier** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:04 pm

I think it depends on what you watch, but honestly, you can look at anything and find shows like that, it's not restricted to anime. I mean, shows like 'Hot or Not' etc...basically do the same thing. Same as movies, and different pop idols.