My thoughts on the US version of CCS: CARDCAPTORS

paizuri · Post by **paizuri** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:53 pm

I'm confused, W i l l o w. You just blasted everyone who disagrees with you because of your opinion on the North American release of CCS when all they were doing were voicing their own opinions. Both GloryQuestor and lilgumba posted very polite and thoughtful (lilgumba's especially) replies on *their own* thoughts about the shows. This is a forum, if you're not willing to concede that other people may have valid points about something, why bother posting at all? And if people can't say "wrongdoing", you really should stop calling people "purists" while textually rolling your eyes.

I think Nelvana's treatment of CCS was a failure as well. The fact that there are fans of Cardcaptors only speaks to the strength of the original material rather than the hack editing job that Nelvana did. I really don't consider this a point of contention since Cardcaptors was cancelled in the US instead of running its full course (although how full that course would have been seeing as how the order of the episodes was rearranged and entire episodes were only told in flashback form is also questionable).

I think Nelvana should have taken the path of least resistance when adapting CCS for North American audiences. I can see what they were *trying* to do, but I feel like it failed. But in trying to broaden the target audience from mainly young girls to include young boys, they screwed up. By showing episodes out of order to be able to introduce a male lead sooner, they weakened the show because overall there were a lot of episodes where Li simply didn't participate. So not only was there a tenuous male presence, but the female lead's solo airtime was also cut down. Not to mention that much of the subtle development of the characters was lost because of the episode rearrangement and use of flashbacks in lieu of showing the material as a regular episode.

If Nelvana had gone with the original flow of the show instead of trying to steer it in directions it was not meant to go, I think public reaction to it would have been stronger. What they did was akin to trying to make Sailor Moon more attractive to young male audiences by trying to include Darien more strongly in every episode. I mean, sure, he's in practically every episode (I can't think of one he isn't in, but I haven't seen it all), but that doesn't mean the show revolved around him. The TV broadcast of Sailor Moon had plenty of edits (sometimes entire episodes), but do you think it would have lasted nearly as long if it had gotten the same treatment that Nelvana put CCS through?

lilgumba · Post by **lilgumba** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:05 pm

I'm a bit disappointed actually. I thought we could really get a good healthy debate going on here. You said you wanted opinions from Cardcaptors fans.

lilgumba wrote: I gave it a shot and ended up enjoying the show. It had it's action and was something I had not seen before so it kept my interest

As you can see I stated that near the begining of my response. I could break out the tapes now and probably still enjoy CC to a degree if I treat it like an alternate universe. However, I can also see why people do not like it either since I seen and liked both versions (with CCS > CC in my case.) In no way was I trying to be dictative. I was, just as you were, trying to point out the facts and analyze the show. In all honesty, when you mentioned the Japanese version it was presented in a light where you were making a judgement on both CCS and CC so of course I responded that way. My bad judgement if it was interpreted incorrectly.

nynex4 · Post by **nynex4** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:31 pm

They made Tomoyo sassy and stuck up and Syaoran a bully. they wanted Li to be a main character so that the show can be watched by boys. but isn't there enough boy shows out there, why is that girls can't have cool shows? Tomoyo was made to be a snobby sassy girl, what kind of role model is that for young girls to be watching? the real tomoyo was very smart and kind, a much better role model. Why did they have to change their last name from kinimoto to avalon? Don't we need more culture diversity in this country? What is wrong with kids learning names from a forien country? I really feel like they were dumbing down our kids when they did this, and I was very dissapointed.

I could go on and debate about the stupid changes they did for the english version, but I don't have the time.

devilmaykickass · Post by **devilmaykickass** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:39 am

Tomoyo liked Sakura? Thanks for spoiling it.

Dylan's forcelance · Post by **Dylan's forcelance** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:26 am

lilgumba wrote:I'm a bit disappointed actually. I thought we could really get a good healthy debate going on here. You said you wanted opinions from Cardcaptors fans

I think this could be a great, healthy debate, but people just need to be a little more open minded, and a lot less on the angery side. If everyone would just hear eachother out, this could be a very interesting and fun thread. You can learn alot from listening to other's opinion.

Willow, You have a good thread going here, but if you want to hear what people think, your going to have to hear them out. We are all entitled to our opinion. Opening a debate thread gave people the idea that you really wanted to know what people thought. I don't doubt that is true, but I get the feeling that you are not coming across as that right now. I am not saying you meant to arouse any anger or tension, but it certainly has happened. From now on, I think it would be best if you took a less "attacking" aproach to your debate. Instead, say what you think and back it up with why you think it, remembering that everyone here has a valad opinion, and there is more then one side to this debate.

I am curious to see what else people have to say here. so lets keep the ball rolling and get this debate on track.

Dylan's forcelance · Post by **Dylan's forcelance** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:28 am

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:26 am Post subject:

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lilgumba wrote:I'm a bit disappointed actually. I thought we could really get a good healthy debate going on here. You said you wanted opinions from Cardcaptors fans

I think this could be a great, healthy debate, but people just need to be a little more open minded, and a lot less on the angery side. If everyone would just hear eachother out, this could be a very interesting and fun thread. You can learn alot from listening to other's opinion.

Willow, You have a good thread going here, but if you want to hear what people think, your going to have to hear them out. We are all entitled to our opinion. Opening a debate thread gave people the idea that you really wanted to know what people thought. I don't doubt that is true, but I get the feeling that you are not coming across as that right now. I am not saying you meant to arouse any anger or tension, but it certainly has happened. From now on, I think it would be best if you took a less "attacking" aproach to your debate. Instead, say what you think and back it up with why you think it, remembering that everyone here has a valad opinion, and there is more then one side to this debate.

I am curious to see what else people have to say here. so lets keep the ball rolling and get this debate on track.

Org Profile · Post by **GloryQuestor** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:36 pm

(SPOILERS FOLLOW)

If you are undecided, there is a "lithmus test" for finding which version of the show you like best: Cardcaptor Sakura: The Movie on DVD.

Play the English Dub track first. The story seems normal enough at the start, and basically follows Sakura's trial to stop Clow Reed's "greatest archenemy", a former student of his, while protecting all of her friends and family. Take notice of every line, every story detail.

Now, watch the Japanese (with English Subtitle) version. Well, it seems that Clow Reed's "archenemy" was actually his former girlfriend. Because she was spurned in her feelings by Clow, she tries to take revenge by luring Clow from Japan ... only to actually lure his successor, Sakura.

So, after seeing both versions, which one do you prefer: the English version of the movie, or the Japanese version (or both)?

- If you prefer the English version over the Japanese version, then you will really like Cardcaptors. You might wonder why Li Showron gets more time than Sakura Avalon, but it's water under the bridge. The storylines are generally good, but without all of that "bizzare Japanese stuff", and there is a lot of action packed into every episode. You'll probably collect the Playmates toys, especially the Clow Book (with official Clow Cards drawn by CLAMP themselves).

- If you prefer the Japanese version over the English version, then you will really like Cardcaptor Sakura. Sure, you'll wonder about the bizzare relationships between most of the cast members, and it's only Japanese with English-Subtitling. However, you will enjoy watching the story as it was originally conceived, and might even find a lot of humor in the quirky relationships. You'll probably start collecting the original CLAMP manga series, maybe even dabble in other CLAMP titles (especially Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicle).

- If you prefer both of them, then you are perfect for being a real die-hard fan of the Cardcaptor Sakura craze. You probably have a good majority of both TV shows on DVD, have all twelve of the Cardcaptor Sakura mangas, you probably like other CLAMP stuff (Magic Knight Rayearth, Chobits, Wish, X/1999, XXXHolic, etc.), and you are working on getting a perfect collection of the Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicle mangas and anime.

(Also, as a bonus, try watching the movie with the English Dub soundtrack with the English subtitles (based on the Japanese story version) turned on. It's the most humorous experience I've ever had with an anime.

)