Evangelion Prequel and other eva stuff

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:55 pm

nobody said that everyone else had the choice to remain in the perfect instrumentality world, all that was said at the end was that people could form themselves again. Instrumentality exploded, it broke down. If some random guy decided he didnt want instrumentality it woudnt have changed a thing. It's because shinji was inside unit 01, at the head of it all.

I guess I somewhat agree. I agree that Shinji made the ultimate choice that would allow mankind the opportunity to come back. I *think* somewhere in the movie, Yui does say that each person has the choice as to where they would remain, but again that's *think.* Regardless, I agree with the part about Shinji since if he accepted instrumentality, everyone would to.

As for the sea its debatable if it is just the color of the surroundings or what (besides, LCL is orange not red). The sea that rei and shinji talk in first seems to be inside the black moon, since they're situated in between earth, the moon, and the sun and that is where the other souls are (although shinjis should technically be inside the big rei). But then they're seen inside a normal blue earth-like ocean, and eventually shinji in physical form comes out of the red colored sea (or does he? the proportions seem off in that scene, the rei-head should be as big as japan itself).

I guess to help things along, in the big scheme of things it doesn't really matter right? We agree that people *can* come back and that Shinji was the key. Things like this are trivial (IMHO). You bring up some good points, but I guess I'm unsure, like yourself.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:08 am

quote]btw2- Who killed me (in case u don't know wat i'm talkin about, ready my name and igore the 'II') i wanna hear reasons if it's not too much trouble, or possibly a url that gives reasons for ur decision Quote:
just a theory, since everyone was part of instrumentality, all people were combined (like you see in shinji's case), she could be reffering to her revulsion of being "one" with everyone else.

I know this is gonna sound real "high & mighty" (and I don't mean to), but I honestly kind of get sick of this question. Not because of the answer (although when people say Misato, I am baffled), but because of the relevance. Think about it, does it really matter who killed Kaji? Does it change the story at all? I think the reason the person is faceless is because...Anno didn't care.

Kaji knew he was going to die after revealing all of that and hence the line "Oh you're late." Not necessarily to imply that he knew the person, but that he knew was going to die soon. My logical guess is that it was a random NERV operative, there are tons of those that do that exact thing.

Regardless, I got off-topic (and answered the question heh ). The point is that, IMHO, this isn't something to really think HARD on since it's not relevant to the story. Someone killed Kaji, he knew it was going to happen, the end. If you knew it was Gendo or a random NERV operative, it doesn't change the overall story of Eva does it? Eva is about people and our interactions with each other. Something like this is very trivial in the big picture ne? In any case, sorry to get so "confrontational." I didn't mean to and this *is* a forum so you're free to ask

i think i should point this out in case u wanna re-word this sumhow..u say it doesn't matter who shot gendo. i agree that it doesn't make a difference in the plot-line of eva, everything happens just the same no matter who it turns out that shot him. Eva IS about interactions, and barriers to do so (AT field) so knowing that, wouldn't you say that it mattered who shot kaji, not if it turns out to be a regular run-of-the-mill nerv employee, but if it was sum1 like misato, that would be a BIG interaction between those two characters, not as a great an interaction, but still a valid one would have been between kaji and gendo if gendo had shot him. i don't wanna say who i think it is, at this point considering that on the outside Gendo is all about business, and his business with kaji was finished, he could have shot him and Kaji would have seen it coming, hense his final words. But Misato i wouldn't rule totally out, that would definately be eva-like if Misato shot kaji because that was her lover and she greives heavily for his loss, that because he was a spy, had to be terminated..personally. but again this is only an early theory, i still need to check out the episodes more.

and i quote "...Anno doesn't care." i don't think ur in a position to make that assumption, if anything, i'll bet there wasn't a paperclip on that show that Anno didn't care about. (suspects there was a personal connection to Anno's own life that correlates with Kaji's mystery killer)

and about the EoE final screen with asuka and shinji, i don't want anyone to think that those were things i have hard-evidence about, i was just making observations and writing my thoughts as i went along. LCL is orange, but in that setting, don't u think it would have been darker...almost red

..muahahahahahaha

...sorry about that (pulls himself together)

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:11 am

correction to last post
and i quote "...Anno didn't care."

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:16 am

baaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!
2nd correction to before-previous post
'u say it doesn't matter who shot kaji.'
instead of
'u say it doesn't matter who shot gendo.'
heh heh big blooper (bops himself on head)
(watches credibility fly out the window

)
but respond none the less

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:08 pm

i think i should point this out in case u wanna re-word this sumhow..u say it doesn't matter who shot gendo. i agree that it doesn't make a difference in the plot-line of eva, everything happens just the same no matter who it turns out that shot him. Eva IS about interactions, and barriers to do so (AT field) so knowing that, wouldn't you say that it mattered who shot kaji, not if it turns out to be a regular run-of-the-mill nerv employee, but if it was sum1 like misato, that would be a BIG interaction between those two characters, not as a great an interaction,

Well, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Anno didn't focus on this entirely and IMHO I think it's just fans coming up with something out of nothing (IMHO is the keyword). Secondly, Misato shooting Kaji? IMO this makes no sense. Why does she cry when she receives the message from him? She also shakes before pushing the button? The call was basically a goodbye call, which implies she thought he might die, but this confirms it. It also doesn't fit her character. To have Misato kill Kaji is to pretty much devalue her charcter and the generalazation about a trait we all possess. You say it is "Eva-like," but I think it would be very un-Eva like. She needs to keep the traits that are given to her for his message (IMO) about the qualities we posses to go through effectively. I don't think Anno would do that given what he was trying to say (IMO).

and i quote "...Anno doesn't care." i don't think ur in a position to make that assumption, if anything, i'll bet there wasn't a paperclip on that show that Anno didn't care about. (suspects there was a personal connection to Anno's own life that correlates with Kaji's mystery killer)

Yes true, I don't know, but I'm just sharing my opinion (I *think* I put "I think"). No one for sure knows what Eva is about or Anno is thinking, but that's why we're having this discussion ne?

As for this having something to do with his own life, IMO I don't think so. Again, I think this is an incident of fans looking to deeply into the show when (IMO) it was just a NERV operative and the reason he says "Oh you're late" is because he knew he was going to die. I do agree it *could* be Gendo, but why would he bother himself with such a menial task when he could do it himself. I guess in some sort of way, Gendo is the murderer since he probably gave the order.

Pierrot Le Fou · Post by **Pierrot Le Fou** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:19 pm

Well in Death and Rebirth they do some [clumsy] editing at the scene
where Kaji dies that basically implies that Misato shot him. So that could
be the origin of that argument.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:23 pm

Well in Death and Rebirth they do some [clumsy] editing at the scene
where Kaji dies that basically implies that Misato shot him. So that could
be the origin of that argument.

Really? Whoa! Ok that's interesting. I haven't seen Death & Rebirth since it's basically a re-hash with a little bit of EoE. I thought, "Why bother, I can just watch EoE."

Jiima · Post by **Jiima** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:06 pm

Somebody told me the same thing, but I bought it anyway. The way they recap the series (the sequencing of key events, retelling the progression of character relationships) kind of tied together things that I'd never thought to put together. But then again, I'm not good at picking up onto things the first time through. Heh-heh *scratches back of neck*

Jiima · Post by **Jiima** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:16 pm

Kaji II wrote:btw1- No one has responded to the question of wat asuka's final words in Eoe meant

Somebody made a link to an Ask John earlier that cleared this up for me. Especially since there was a scene deleted out of the american release that might have, just maybe

, cleared up some stuff.

However I do like the explanation that dwchang gave...

I've heard various theories on this, the one that I find the funniest is that
Asuka saying "Kimochi warui" (I feel sick/bad/whatever) is really the director Hideaki Anno speaking. As we have already established in this thread, Anno was more or less forced to make Eva since the fans were sending death threats because of the TV ending. He made a sensational movie, used tons of money, etc. etc. and in the end that statement is his feeling of the entire thing. Wouldn't you feel the same if people rejected your ending? In any case, it's just a theory...but it's funny.

Hehehe, I'd never thought about the fact that there might have been a rational human being with real feelings making this thing. I mean, come on. If you watch it you wonder how anyone who's not wasted out of their mind could make something like this.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:10 pm

thnx Jiima for that Ask John thingamabobber

i'll check it out
i wouldn't consider Gendo the murderer of kaji if he ordered the hit on him. i guess i can see how a nerv operative could have done it, and kaji expecting it saying ur late. but that's just a theory like the theory of misato killing him, i saw it as kaji telling misato she's late for sumkind of meeting they arranged together. i said it was eva-like because of the betrayal of lovers in the series, Misato like any other person has more than just one side to her. she was a very dedicated nerv operative and business does always come before pleasure. the scene where she hears about kaji's death and then breaks down and cries in front of the answering machine leads me (in other words, my opinion which is what she forums are about) to believe that misato of course not liking what she knew she must do quickly killed kaji and ran off without letting anything sink in of what she had just done. when she heard the answering machine message and hearing kaji's voice (sorta from the grave), she broke down and grieved for her lost lover. thnx why i think the way i do, but i did say that i need to check out the episodes sum more and also i'll check Death again to look for the clips that were mentioned earlier.
thnx for ur input dwchang, u provide great arguments (although can be a little close-minded sumtims, but not much)