grave of the fireflys

madbunny · Post by **madbunny** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:00 am

People need to understand the differences between patriotism, and nationalism. Most people believe that the United States is actually a Democracy. (we are a democratic republic, se: pledge of allegiance for oversimplified example)

Nationalism ~ our country is always right even if I don't agree with it, I will do what I'm told because to not do so makes me against my country.

Patriotism ~ Our country SHOULD be always right even if it's not personally convenient. I should make choices, because as the Nuremburg trials taught us, "following orders" is not a valid excuse for commiting wrongs.

More people have freely given away their personal freedoms in the name of illusory safety and security than have ever had that same freedom snatched away by a foreign power.

For people like those National Guards to get upset at this flys in the face of reality. Either they should deal with the fact that as a country we make mistakes, and try to prevent them in the future, or they accept that they will be perpetuting more of the same mistakes.

To stay on topic: the reason that the movie is often seen as being anti American, is that it shows America doing things like firebombing civilian targets. (which we did.)
What the movie is, in my opinion is be anti war. It does this in a simple yet utterly effective manner by showing one boys struggle to understand what is happening forces larger than he is rage around him. In the process, losing his pride, dignity, and ultimately much more.

/soapbox

[I'll shut up now]

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:27 pm

ditto
movie is anti-war, not anti-american, if it was anti-american, than the kid would have been screaming "DAMN YOU AMERICANS!! DAMN YOUUUUU!!!"... but he didn't, he just kinda felt the pain of the situation he was in, the situation caused by war... not caused by america, if Japan was at war with any other powerful nation, the same would have happened and this movie would still have been made, only with different enemies drawn in

yes, movie is very emotional, the closest i've gotten to crying in a movie, i held back cause my little sister was in the room, so i had to be a big man about it

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:17 pm

narcted wrote:
CaTaClYsM wrote:Lets see how far we get before the anti-american war propoganda bombshell gets dropped.
True Story: I watched in the dayroom back when I was in the US Coast Guard. I was run out of the room and the DVD thrown into the hallway. Never watch this anime around the majority of folks in the US military.

Hmm, also related, I nearly got similiar treatment when I watched Silent Service, but it was after that US sub had sunk that Japanese fishing vessel, so they were a bit more tolerant. Gasaraki scarily became a predictor of things to come.

Japanese subs sink fishing boats all the time lol no lie.

Mr Oni

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:26 pm

The kid was a loser and the movie is dull it rates about a 5 anime wise mediocre at best. The movie is not so anti american as it is Japan the victim. People that watch the movie are lulled into a sense of feeling sorry for the japanese while the ominous american bombers fly overhead. Sure war is hell we all know that. The thing that urks me the most is that the kid is not sympathetic hes a useless piece of shit that would rather steal than work. He drags his little sister along until in the end she dies because he couldnt provide. Boo hoo lets all cry over this me personally I wack over her dead body.

Mr Oni

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:29 pm

The kid was a loser and the movie is dull it rates about a 5 anime wise mediocre at best. The movie is not so anti american as it is Japan the victim. People that watch the movie are lulled into a sense of feeling sorry for the japanese while the ominous american bombers fly overhead. Sure war is hell we all know that. The thing that urks me the most is that the kid is not sympathetic hes a useless piece of shit that would rather steal than work. He drags his little sister along until in the end she dies because he couldnt provide. Boo hoo lets all cry over this me personally I wack over her dead body.

Mr Oni

NineBirds · Post by **NineBirds** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:10 am

SPOILERS.

Ah yes. Because the best way to portray World War II would be to pretend that America did nothing to Japan. See, there would be firebombing except the bombs would be delivered by pigeons. But wait! People might assume America trained the pigeons! We can't have that--better make the bombs delivered by pigeons dressed in the colors of a made-up country--perhaps neon orange and purple with bright green plaid would work? Name the country Hinzelfooge. Say it was a forgotten Allied force--no, to better seperate it from America we best assume they acted entirely of their own volition and in fact hated America. Ah yes, I can see it now--the poor boy running desperately from the flocks of Hinzelfoogian pigeons carrying the deadly firebombs that would destroy his city and kill his mother . . . it would truly be one of the most emotional moments in the history of Japanese animation.

Honestly.

The American presence in the film was simply to provide a backdrop of the events--how is realistically portraying their role in the war in any way anit-American? Besides, if you had any interpretive skills whatsoever you'd recognize that the real condemnation in the film was saved for the war in general and the uber-patriotic, blind-faith WWII Japanese mindset--the propaganda that focused the entire nation's attention on the war effort while letting those in need of real help slip through the cracks. The director was trying to spark a discussion about the nature of true patriotism and what it means in the relationship of the members of the population to the nation-state and to each other.

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:38 am

derek_t wrote: In truth I consider it more patrotic Japanesse than anti-american (I mean is there really supose to be a movie where the Japanesse say "yah, here come the american bombers to teach us a lesson for our evil ways")

(no offense intended to any americans here; its not a generalisation, its a specification)

Although I'm surprised some asshole american "Patriot" hasnt lobbied for the creation of a disney movie that features that exact line in that exact context.

SS5_Majin_Bebi · Post by **SS5_Majin_Bebi** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:46 am

narcted wrote:
CaTaClYsM wrote:Lets see how far we get before the anti-american war propoganda bombshell gets dropped.
True Story: I watched in the dayroom back when I was in the US Coast Guard. I was run out of the room and the DVD thrown into the hallway. Never watch this anime around the majority of folks in the US military.

People like that need to grow the fuck up and realise: yes, the war happened exactly like that. if it were anti-american, the american soldiers/bombers would be made out to be hellions, demonspawn bent on world domination. The simple fact that Japan isnt currently blowing the shit out of every american-allied country is evidence that they dont hate you or us.

Fucking idiots of the like that narcted was talking about are the worst kind of person - those who think they can never ever be wrong. Shit, theyre touchy for a war thats been over for nearly 60 years. If they were mature about it, theyd sit down, watch the damn film, and then raise points or discuss it. Had it been me having my DVD thrown down the hall and ran out of the rec room, i would have walked back in there and personally kicked each and every one of their immature asses. Or at least die trying.

Sushi2 · Post by **Sushi2** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:22 am

Here is a review I wrote on it but I think I over exagerated at the beginning. Beware it does have some spoilers.

Ayway it is a great anime, probably one of a few that is so effective that I really do not want to watch it again and depresses me when even thinking of it.

bum · Post by **bum** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:39 pm

hmmm, i sence a sence of anti-americanism here. enough to say that anyone who thinks that GOTF is anti-american even in the slightest is a fucking narrowminded idiot that needs to stop dreaming of sucking bus's hairy cock. or mabey im just bashing our beloved leader johny howard. barstard